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Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

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Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#131

Post by j-a-a-p »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #96
pdonis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In that case I saw a SUV struggling to stop in my rear view mirror. I had enough control to move to the right and have that SUV crash into the vehicle in front of me. As this example of yours shows, a key benefit of ABS (if you're not a professional driver) is that it allows you to steer as well as brake, by preventing the wheels from locking). IIRC studies have shown that the majority of accidents cannot be avoide…

This. In advanced driving lessons, in both dry and snowy conditions, goodn driving instructors not only acknowledged but demonstrated, it is POSSIBLE to break better than ABS. But in an uncontrolled, unanticipated emergency (where you don't necessarily get to pick your breaking point and posture etc), ABS gives you steering control. It takes practice to utilize that ability, mostly people just focus and fixate in the…

> mostly people just focus and fixate in the obstacle ahead

Indeed! Forgot all about my takeaway #2 of the course, thanks for reminding me. People tend to focus wrong in an emergency. Look further ahead, get the bigger picture otherwise you actually steer toward the collision as a self fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#132

Post by saalweachter »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #104
aidenn0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An added bonus is that most of time the impatient drivers will just go around me and I don't need to worry too much about tailgaters. I so wish this were more true; I've been tailgated for 10s of miles in the right lane on a freeway with light traffic that was never fewer than 3 lanes for the entirety of that distance.

Wind your window down, stick your hand out, and gesture for them to pass. It works most times I've tried it.

I've had mixed success with honking.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#133

Post by taylodl »

whartung wrote: post #124
taylodl wrote: post #67

FortNine on HN! I love it when two different aspects of my life collide! For the HNers who don't know much about motorcycles, in the motorcycling world there's a big argument whether ABS is a net good or not. The old-timers tend to say "learn to ride your bike, you can beat ABS." Manufacturers site statistics saying ABS saves lives. This video is good in that it shows old-timer braking + ABS gives the best of both wo…

> That's why it's critical motorcycle riders practice emergency braking. You have to practice it enough to make it muscle memory. Indeed threshold braking (which is what this is) is a very important skill to practice for a motorcycle rider. However, that said, while folks can practice the maneuver, what is very difficult to practice is the situation. It’s one thing to practice on a dry parking lot in front of a cone…

Agreed 100%

Never disable ABS when riding on the street. You never know what you're going to do in an actual emergency situation (most riders only use the rear brake in such scenarios?!) so it's good to have ABS to back up your lizard brain.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#134

Post by pstanger »

sudosysgen wrote: post #25
Swizec wrote: post #9

FortNine is great but the conclusion in this video is a little silly. The best result comes from threshold braking with ABS enabled. Yeah no shit. As described in the video, motorcycles perform funny under braking. If you slam the brakes too fast, you have very little grip. ABS kicks in and you’re not stopping. If you progressively brake correctly, you transfer load to the front tyre and increase grip. ABS kicks in,…

The average car doesn't actually have more grip than the average motorcycle. More surface contact != More traction. Grip in a motorcycle is only really limited by gravity. That's still far better than most cars. The average motorcycle (or bicycle, for that matter) will have little problem hitting 35 degrees lean and therefore produce lateral G forces exceeding that of a typical car. Same is true for deceleration, the…

I don't have any data for you, but my own experience owning and racing cars and motorcycles tells me this is not true. Contact patch isn't everything, but being able to load 4000lb on the front tires vs 500lb makes a big difference. A car on a track can blow right by the typical motorcycle braking point coming into a corner

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#135

Post by nucleardog »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #81
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough. So now they've created brake-assist options that try to determine when such a case is occurring, and slam on the brakes as hard as the car is able. As incredulous as that sounds, it's apparently improved overall safety. From what I've read the tech has been around since the 90's but has become much more standard.

I’m pretty sure half the problem is that people can’t even _get_ the brake pedal to the floor.

When I get in a car and need to adjust the seat, I slide my butt to the back of the seat and push the brake pedal all the way to the floor. What I’m looking for is being able to have it on the floor slightly before my knee locks and without my foot needing to leave the floor (i.e., not lifting my foot up and pushing with the tip of my toes or something).

I know that I can apply 100% braking force. If I were much further back I could not.

I often get in the cars of people 6”+ shorter than me and… don’t need to slide the seat back. I get in cars driven by people around the same height as me and need to pull the seat forward. My wife is one example—she’s around 4” shorter than me and when I drive her car I keep the seat in the same position she does.

It’s a pet theory that the majority of people driving on the road day to day have their seat positioned so they’re actually physically incapable of braking with full strength.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#136

Post by tomtheelder »

Swizec wrote: post #40
tomtheelder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by which part of the conclusion you thought was silly. It seems like you reached the exact same conclusion than the video did, and I don't think it's at all obvious to most people that you are still supposed to threshold brake with ABS.

The silly/unfortunate part is that most people can’t threshold brake in emergency situations. It’s like saying “Doing the perfect thing every time is best”. Which is true but not useful. And they teach you about progressive braking in the first hour of learning to ride. Then they keep repeating it all the time. Every rider on the road knows that they should do this. It’s the execution that is hard.

Yeah and that’s exactly what the video says as well: that people can’t consistently threshold break in emergency situations, which is why ABS is so valuable.
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