Ticketmaster has exclusive deals with artists and venues. Artists not signing deals with Ticketmaster lose access to venues, and venues not signing exclusivity deals with Ticketmaster lose access to artists. There are enough of these on both sides that neither wants to lose the other so they sign. Side note: I worked at a small ticketing software shop circa the Ticketmaster/LiveNation merger. The CEO got a call from…
Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
131–140 of 169 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're bringing up the past, they are talking about the present, which is absolutely accurate.
OP asked why nobody has beaten TM. The answer cannot be "because they have a vertically integrated monopoly" because in the past that wasn't true and nobody was able to beat them then either.
Source: I used to own a night club in San Francisco.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#133Essentially they’ve captured the market.
Venues and artists are no longer in the free market.
It needs a big powerful player with deep pockets, startups don’t stand a chance.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#134Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#135Ticketmaster is a company which is so hated, people ascribe their success to malice and illegal activity rather than any compelling economic arguments. It's unfortunate because their business model is, imo, quite interesting. The first thing to point out is that the question itself is flawed. Ticketmaster has a number of competitors (StubHub, Eventbrite, AXS, Seatgeek). Nevertheless, artists do seem to always gravita…
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to be pendantic, but could you please provide some general numbers or cite any source for this
https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/07/17/artists-touring-... Literally a web search will give you plenty. The NYT even did an article about it.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
So where’s Lina Kahn pressuring to break up these exclusive agreements? She made hay talking about them in 2022 but what has been done recently? https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/big-firms-lik...
> but what has been done recently? Specifically about Ticketmaster or what has FTC done more broadly? Proposed a rule against hidden fees (10 days ago). It's also supposed to give FTC enforcement mechanism so that it'd be more effective than state laws that were passed and basically ignored. Also filed an antitrust lawsuit against Amazon (less than a month ago) for how they're treating third-party sellers. And if I r…
Monopolies are not inherently illegal.
If a business obtains a monopoly by offering superior products or innovation, or through superior business acumen, the monopoly is legal. Antitrust issues arise when a monopoly is achieved or maintained by exclusionary or predatory acts.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#138(1) The ticketing system you want as a consumer is not the ticketing system that artists/venues/promoters want. As a consumer, you hate those Ticketmaster fees. The others? They love those fees. That's how they get paid. There are almost no standard fees for Ticketmaster. Every fee is contract specific and split between the parties. From the convenience fee to the print-at-home-free -- cuts of those got to everyone.
You could build the consumer-friendly platform, but it's not going to be used anyone, and certainly not by top artists. Top artists expect to get get 95% to 105% of the ticket price (yes, more than 100%). That leaves everyone else (including the promoter & venues reliant on other revenue streams like fees.
(2) The business requirements make it a technical beast to solve. Nevermind your LAMP-based ecomm site. Tickets aren't fungible. That creates a lot of problems. Thing selling airline tickets, not widgets on Amazon. Venues can be configured in countless ways. Pricing strategies are complex, often unique per show & dynamic. Most shows don't sell out. The promoter is the one who took the financial risk and needs to figure out how to maximize the revenue per show. Once the show is over, those unsold tickets are worthless.
(3) Scaling is hard. Massive spikes during onsale, but very low QPS at other times. The hardware cost profile is challenging than most non-FAANG services.
(4) Creating a ticket system for a small theatre with fixed seating, or purely GA events isn't that hard. What's hard is a top tier artist going on tour across the country. (And that's where most of the profit is.)
(5) Ticketing isn't that profitable. You'd have to invest a lot of resource for not much gain. The last serious attempt was LiveNation. They dumped hundreds of millions trying to build their own platform. Then gave up & bought Ticketmaster.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#139Ticketmaster has exclusive deals with artists and venues. Artists not signing deals with Ticketmaster lose access to venues, and venues not signing exclusivity deals with Ticketmaster lose access to artists. There are enough of these on both sides that neither wants to lose the other so they sign. Side note: I worked at a small ticketing software shop circa the Ticketmaster/LiveNation merger. The CEO got a call from…
While it's true Ticketmaster does have these exclusive deals, it's demonstrably false that this is the reason why TM still hasn't been replaced.
If you've been around the industry for a while, you'll remember that LiveNation & Ticketmaster were distinct companies. In fact, LN tried to leave Ticketmaster. LN was the one with the exclusive deals with artists. LN was the one who owned the venues.
Yet LN failed. They dumped hundreds of millions into building a ticketing platform unsuccessfully. And eventually just bought Ticketmaster.
It a good data point that even if you have the right contracts, you'll fail if you don't have the right tech.
Re: Ask HN: Why has no one replaced Ticketmaster?
#140Live Nation, who own Ticketmaster, also own the venues and do the promotion for the tours. They have a vertically integrated monopoly.
In fact, Pearl Jam sued TM for being a monopoly in 1994, about 15 years before LN bought TM.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/1994-when-pearl-jam-took-ti....