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Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

kcl.ac.uk

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Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#131

Post by hanniabu »

notamy wrote: post #116
rkhassen9 wrote: post #112

I wonder if simply taking antibiotics at some point, clearing everything out and repopulating the flora could help? My guess is no - that something in the system is triggered by the fecal transplant but that gut flora isn't the main source, but it would be an interesting thing to look at. I'm not in this field and do not know how to mine this data or properly posit the question, but maybe something along the lines of…

> I wonder if simply taking antibiotics at some point, clearing everything out and repopulating the flora could help? For some GI issues, this is actually a real solution used today. I learned about it from a SIBO diagnosis, which is treated with antibiotics and dietary changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_intestinal_bacterial_ove...

I wish it were that easy. I've had sibo for 3 years now, originally methane sibo, took 2 rounds of xifaxan and neomycin and 3 rounds of xifaxan alone and now still have hydrogen sibo. I've tried many other herbal treatments, done a ton of tests, tried probiotic loading to overcome it, but nothing seems to have really worked. Worst part is eating the same meal, for every meal, day in and day out because it's the only food that doesn't give me issues.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#132

Post by SomewhatLikely »

Jerry2 wrote: post #99

Do we know which bacteria/microbiota is causing this? Any benefits from taking probiotics?

The article mentions:

  In addition, similar to a previous report using a transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease,56 the relative abundance of the pathobiont genera Desulfovibrio was significantly increased in Alzheimer’s patients compared to cognitively healthy control subjects

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#133

Post by beef234 »

Analysis of gut microbiota composition by bacterial 16S rRNA gene sequencing in a subset of Alzheimer’s patients (Supplementary Fig. 1A–E) revealed no significant change in alpha and beta diversities between control subjects and Alzheimer’s patients (Supplementary Fig. 1B–D). However, at phylum level, Alzheimer’s patients had a higher abundance of Bacteroidetes (Fig. 1C) reported to comprise many pro-inflammatory species,53 and a lower abundance of the phyla Firmicutes and Verruocomicrobiota, reported to produce beneficial metabolites.54 At the genus level, Alzheimer’s patients had on average a significant reduction in the relative abundance of Clostridium sensu stricto 1 and the short chain fatty acid (SCFA) butyrate-producing genera Coprococcus, which is associated with healthy ageing in general55 (Fig. 1C). In addition, similar to a previous report using a transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease,56 the relative abundance of the pathobiont genera Desulfovibrio was significantly increased in Alzheimer’s patients compared to cognitively healthy control subjects

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#136

Post by hanniabu »

dappermanneke wrote: post #109
cpncrunch wrote: post #102

If you look at the scatter graphs, it's not terribly impressive. Lots of overlap, and most of the results show no difference. The one that does show a large difference still has a lot of overlap in the scatter graph, and it seems to be some outliers that bring down the mean value. It's kind of an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence. This isn't that. What interests me more is why HN users keep p…

almost everyone on HN is interested in biology and especially biohacking but does not actually realise they have none of the necessary expertise to judge claims coming from that field; the level of discourse on these topics is sometimes worse than what I spot on reddit

Yes, when a topic you're intimately familiar with comes up, it's unbearable reading the comments.

Worst part is when you try to set the record straight and wind up with -5 votes and a dead comment within minutes.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#137

Post by [deleted] »

beef234 wrote: post #133

Analysis of gut microbiota composition by bacterial 16S rRNA gene sequencing in a subset of Alzheimer’s patients (Supplementary Fig. 1A–E) revealed no significant change in alpha and beta diversities between control subjects and Alzheimer’s patients (Supplementary Fig. 1B–D). However, at phylum level, Alzheimer’s patients had a higher abundance of Bacteroidetes (Fig. 1C) reported to comprise many pro-inflammatory spe…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#138

Post by chris_va »

cpncrunch wrote: post #102

If you look at the scatter graphs, it's not terribly impressive. Lots of overlap, and most of the results show no difference. The one that does show a large difference still has a lot of overlap in the scatter graph, and it seems to be some outliers that bring down the mean value. It's kind of an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence. This isn't that. What interests me more is why HN users keep p…

Not really weighing in one way or another, but I do not see scatter plots in the paper other than one PCA plot (which was not LDA... not sure why they chose PCA, so no strong reason to expect point separation there, though I do not know the diversity metric they are using so feel free to ignore my commentary).

Violin plots always look like they overlap. I think seaborn's split=True should be pushed a bit harder.

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#139

Post by vvilliamperez »

keyle wrote: post #128
tomjakubowski wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

N=1. I had various digestion problems, probably due to gut flora imbalances. After several years of trying to fix the problem with diet changes suggested by my doctor (more fiber), I traveled abroad and came home with a very nasty food borne illness. After one Z-pack and several days of being "backed up", my gut was suddenly back to normal and has been fine since.

Can you explain Z pack and backed up?

"Z-pak" is a dosage of the antibiotic Zithromax, or Azithromycin, taken as a "pack" of pills over the course of 5 or more days.

I'm guessing backed up means constipated

Re: Scientists discover links between Alzheimer's disease and gut microbiota

#140

Post by hanniabu »

cmpalmer52 wrote: post #113

Are shady fecal transplant clinics a thing yet? Take these antibiotics for a week, then we’ll hose fecal matter from healthy, young, thin people into your intestines like a reverse enema. Move over sperm banks and blood banks, the poop bank is much easier. Only sorta joking.

The process hasn't been perfected and is still pretty risky even at official places
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