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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The core idea behind a union makes sense - it's legalised extortion. How is it extortion, legal or otherwise?

I think the notion of "we are all going to quit and/or refuse to work if employer doesn't do (or does do) x" is arguably pretty extortiony. One could also argue it's just makes the market hyper-efficient by signalling the reaction of the supply of labor to a change in the asking price very quickly and directly. I genuinely don't know why employers do not hire non-union employees in such circumstances; I think most of…

It's no more extortiony than how employers treat their employees.

Collective bargaining is pretty much the only tool workers have to even begin to correct the power differential between employer and employee. Ideally, it allows employees and employers to negotiate on more equal terms than is otherwise possible.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you know? We 10x engineers are so special that we are waving off offer after offer and that will never end. Not only will that never end, but luckily I’m so perfect that I’ll never experience a disability or need any accommodation that I can’t just code or build myself. I mean even then, certainly you had a good enough exit at your first company (like anyone good) that you could basically retire whenever. I mea…

I'm all for unions (going as far as organization attempts at my company)... that said, in all my conversations there is one big thing that people seem to miss, which separates tech unions from automotive or sports unions: The type of work we do and how we're compensated for it. Our work is closer to tool and die makers, we make money printers that keep running without our day-to-day involvement. Let's take S3 as an e…

This is exactly like the entertainment industry and it is the whole reason the Hollywood unions have fought so hard to get and maintain ongoing compensation via residuals.

An actor usually spends a few weeks working on a movie and then the studio profits in perpetuity off that work. Tom Cruise finished filming Top Gun: Maverick years ago, but people are still streaming, renting, and purchasing that movie bringing in massive profit for the studio.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold of you to assume it's the same people, that will deliver the same quality of work

Doesn't need to be the same quality if it's 1/5th the price. Businesses care about profits - not quality.

That will only last so long until consumers reject the terrible quality and move on to another, higher quality competitor - so the wheel will continue to turn and high quality developers will still be hired to produce high quality work.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#135
post #44
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some tech worker unions (like at NYT) but not enough. A relevant book that recently came out but I have not read is You Deserve a Tech Union by Ethan Marcotte https://abookapart.com/products/you-deserve-a-tech-union

My first job was at a tech company with a union. Boeing. It was ridiculously bad. I've never worked with less talented people. One of my coworkers did nothing, at all, for 2 years. But with 17 years of experience, he couldn't be fired. I carried the team, but they couldn't pay me what I was worth or promote me. I left as soon as I could.

When I was at Boeing, there was a story that a worker slugged his supervisor. The worker was fired, the union got him reinstated.

Boeing is a big company with a lot of inefficiency, but there clearly was inefficiency due to union rules. For one thing, layoffs went by seniority, not merit.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you know? We 10x engineers are so special that we are waving off offer after offer and that will never end. Not only will that never end, but luckily I’m so perfect that I’ll never experience a disability or need any accommodation that I can’t just code or build myself. I mean even then, certainly you had a good enough exit at your first company (like anyone good) that you could basically retire whenever. I mea…

I'm all for unions (going as far as organization attempts at my company)... that said, in all my conversations there is one big thing that people seem to miss, which separates tech unions from automotive or sports unions: The type of work we do and how we're compensated for it. Our work is closer to tool and die makers, we make money printers that keep running without our day-to-day involvement. Let's take S3 as an e…

FWIW I think those are all great questions that need exploring. One thing I'm hoping comes out of this recent push for unions is having more opportunities to explore different types & structures, rather than the tiny handful of massive, well-established unions which has been the state for the past 40+ years.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you know? We 10x engineers are so special that we are waving off offer after offer and that will never end. Not only will that never end, but luckily I’m so perfect that I’ll never experience a disability or need any accommodation that I can’t just code or build myself. I mean even then, certainly you had a good enough exit at your first company (like anyone good) that you could basically retire whenever. I mea…

I'm all for unions (going as far as organization attempts at my company)... that said, in all my conversations there is one big thing that people seem to miss, which separates tech unions from automotive or sports unions: The type of work we do and how we're compensated for it. Our work is closer to tool and die makers, we make money printers that keep running without our day-to-day involvement. Let's take S3 as an e…

Besides labor unions focused on collective bargaining for the purpose of guaranteeing wages (shame that working conditions are brought up less often), seems like it might be helpful even just to have something akin to the AMA or ABA, a professional organization that advocates for software engineers, except without the credentialist gatekeeping perhaps. Like an IEEE/ACM with teeth.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love simple answers to complex problems. Unions are such an example. The core idea behind a union makes sense - it's legalised extortion. Unions have codified in the law the ability for everyone in the union to hold the owner of property at ransom until they meet the union's demands. The only counterweight is the threat of bankruptcy, which ruins everything for everyone, but because the ideology of labor is ve…

> The core idea behind a union makes sense - it's legalised extortion. How is it extortion, legal or otherwise?

The extorty part is when the company is not allowed to hire other people to replace the striking workers.

Whereas the employee is free to go to work for some other company at any time.

The rules are not in balance.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#139
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for unions (going as far as organization attempts at my company)... that said, in all my conversations there is one big thing that people seem to miss, which separates tech unions from automotive or sports unions: The type of work we do and how we're compensated for it. Our work is closer to tool and die makers, we make money printers that keep running without our day-to-day involvement. Let's take S3 as an e…

This is exactly like the entertainment industry and it is the whole reason the Hollywood unions have fought so hard to get and maintain ongoing compensation via residuals. An actor usually spends a few weeks working on a movie and then the studio profits in perpetuity off that work. Tom Cruise finished filming Top Gun: Maverick years ago, but people are still streaming, renting, and purchasing that movie bringing in…

The residual model is very interesting for tech... It's complicated by software refractors over time (kinda leading to compensation questions similar to those around genAI)

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#140
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for unions (going as far as organization attempts at my company)... that said, in all my conversations there is one big thing that people seem to miss, which separates tech unions from automotive or sports unions: The type of work we do and how we're compensated for it. Our work is closer to tool and die makers, we make money printers that keep running without our day-to-day involvement. Let's take S3 as an e…

This is exactly like the entertainment industry and it is the whole reason the Hollywood unions have fought so hard to get and maintain ongoing compensation via residuals. An actor usually spends a few weeks working on a movie and then the studio profits in perpetuity off that work. Tom Cruise finished filming Top Gun: Maverick years ago, but people are still streaming, renting, and purchasing that movie bringing in…

I actually never thought of it like this. Thanks for the analog.
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