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Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

cnn.com

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Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#131

Post by muniq »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #85
archon1410 wrote: post #7

I feel the Nobel prize was less for fighting for women's rights, and more for fighting against an anti-American, anti-Western government. For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. I of course don't ever see it going to someone fighting against the American regime itself, and its mass surveillance and war crimes,…

This is because civil rights are a Western ideology. They certainly didn't come from ISIS' views on women. Nor from Russia and China, who supported them. Snowden defected to Russia, see above about supporting ISIS. Assange and Manning's exposure literally cost the lives of Afghan families who were working against AQ, another regime that openly oppresses its people's civil rights. I think you might need to have a hard…

The Soviet Union provided more material support against colonialism and apartheid than the United States. Ask Mandela.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#132

Post by screye »

ReptileMan wrote: post #14
michaeltimo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Since World War II, the Peace Prize has principally been awarded to honour efforts in four main areas: arms control and disarmament, peace negotiation, democracy and human rights, and work aimed at creating a better organized and more peaceful world. In the 21st century the Nobel Committee has embraced efforts to limit the harm done by man-made climate change and threats to the environment as relevant to the Peace P…

But the world is just as peaceful (or peaceless) as before her activism. Now if she actually overthrew or forced the government to reform - it would be different. But award should be given for results not efforts.

It does feel more like the 'Western moral prize' rather than a Peace Prize.

Truth is, the most peaceful transitions are usually military coups. 'Peacefully' won transitions are often the bloodiest. Fear is a terrible thing, but it does lead to effective peace.

With the Nobel Peace Prize, it's usually a coin toss between moral martyr, future genocider and someone who did impactful work towards peace. The best example of their schizo-ness is Gandhi. They didn't award Gandhi when he lead a peaceful resistance. But, awarded it posthumously in the aftermath of the bloodiest & nastiest population exchange in the history of humanity.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#133

Post by bellown »

binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

[flagged]

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#134

Post by screye »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #8
jansan wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Peace Prize has been very strange of late in general. Remember when a man received the Nobel Peace Prize for not being George W. Bush?

You could at least make the case that Obama promoted -- indeed, in a sense, embodied -- "fraternity between nations," for he was incredibly popular with most of America's allies. (See, e.g., his "rock star" reception in Germany.) Even its enemies were at worst ambivalent towards him personally, and at best they were hopeful that he'd bring about positive change. In this sense, he, at minimum, shored up the self-image…

The mishandling of the entire middle-east is hard to ignore. If anything, Trump's only consensus wins came from cleaning up the mess in the middle east.

> shored up the self-image of the Western world

Which tells you everything you need to about the Nobel Peace Prize.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#135

Post by ReptileMan »

galangalalgol wrote: post #30
ReptileMan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You have time man of the year for that kind.

Choosing to face injustice with articles and signs and peaceful gatherings instead of masks and high explosives furthers the goals of peace. Unless her articles explicitly called for violence, I have not read them.

But she has not changed anything. It is irrelevant what method you use if the status quo is not moved.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#136

Post by screye »

Gud wrote: post #112

Well deserved. Iran has so much potential. It's extremely sad how a small group of extremists holds the entire country hostage.

Genuine question, doesn't the ultra-orthodox wing reflect the popular opinion of the country ?

My understanding is that Iran has among the greatest Urban-Rural divides in the world, and that the rural population is large enough to democratically force their conservative views onto the urban population. Turkey seems to be in a similar position, but their proximity to NATO and Europe keeps them somewhat grounded.

> small group of extremists holds the entire country hostage

I'm just not sure that the group of people we consider extremists are that small.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#137

Post by RegnisGnaw »

screye wrote: post #132
ReptileMan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the world is just as peaceful (or peaceless) as before her activism. Now if she actually overthrew or forced the government to reform - it would be different. But award should be given for results not efforts.

It does feel more like the 'Western moral prize' rather than a Peace Prize. Truth is, the most peaceful transitions are usually military coups. 'Peacefully' won transitions are often the bloodiest. Fear is a terrible thing, but it does lead to effective peace. With the Nobel Peace Prize, it's usually a coin toss between moral martyr, future genocider and someone who did impactful work towards peace. The best example…

There is always the Confucius Peace Prize for those that want a 'Eastern moral prize'.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#138

Post by dragonwriter »

imjonse wrote: post #59
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some reason, I don't see the award ever going to a rights activist fighting against the Saudi, Pakistani, or any other American-allied regimes. There have been a few, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Ressa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigoberta_Mench%C3%BA

To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime. And Maria Ressa seems anti-Duterte, and pro-US if I read correctly.

> To be fair, Mandela did not get it while imprisoned and while the US and the UK were tacit supporters of the Apartheid regime.

To be even more fair, Mandela wasn’t the first anti-apartheid Nobel Peace Prize award, and Albert John Lutuli (awarded 1960) and Archbishop Tutu (awarded 1984) got it for fighting apartheid when the US and UK were tacit (active, of the regime if not the apartheid policy specifically, in 1960) supporters of the apartheid regime (Reagan’s reversal on his “constructive engagement” approach came inmediately after Archbishop Tutu's address to Congress and subsequent meeting with the President after the award.. And Dr. King (awarded 1964) got it for his opposition to the parallel policy in America.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#139

Post by LindeBuzoGray »

bnralt wrote: post #108
LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Iran in 1953 had a prime Minister Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalize Iran's oil. The UK (and US) sought the support of right-wing mullahs, then overthrew the prime minister and replaced him with a dictator. Then the CIA helped SAVAK kill off the secular left for the next few decades. Eventually even the right-wing clerics and bazaari grew tired of foreign interference and threw the western powers out.

> Also Iran in 1953 had a prime Minister Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalize Iran's oil. Iranian oil was nationalized; in 1951 the National Iranian Oil Company took control, and retained it even after Mossadegh’s ouster (even up to today). > The UK (and US) sought the support of right-wing mullahs, then overthrew the prime minister and replaced him with a dictator. First, by this point in time Mossadegh had dissolve…

> Iranian oil was nationalized; in 1951 the National Iranian Oil Company took control, and retained it even after Mossadegh’s ouster (even up to today).

Control of oil sales reverted back to British Petroleum (and the Seven Sisters) after the US/UK ousted Iran's prime Minister with Operation Ajax. Not all of Mosaddegh's changes were undone as it would gave destabilized the Shah.

> Second, he wasn’t replaced with a dictator. The Shah had been in power

The Prime Minister ran the government like a modern western government, the Shah was a figurehead. What you're saying is the US and UK wanted to remove the modern parliament to revert to an older, anti-democraric, conservative, traditional government. Which is what happened, and now the Swedes and westerners are whining about the traditionalism the west foisted on Iran, now that it is no longer western aligned.

Aside from mullahs and the dictator, the CIA gave money to criminal elements in Iran to help regain western control.

The Shah was a figurehead and left for Italy. He did not want to run Iran or even go back but was convinced to by westerners. He flew back to Iran with Allen Dulles.

> had forced his father to advocated over a decade before

Forced his father to advocate? Advocate for what?

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#140

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

screye wrote: post #132
ReptileMan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the world is just as peaceful (or peaceless) as before her activism. Now if she actually overthrew or forced the government to reform - it would be different. But award should be given for results not efforts.

It does feel more like the 'Western moral prize' rather than a Peace Prize. Truth is, the most peaceful transitions are usually military coups. 'Peacefully' won transitions are often the bloodiest. Fear is a terrible thing, but it does lead to effective peace. With the Nobel Peace Prize, it's usually a coin toss between moral martyr, future genocider and someone who did impactful work towards peace. The best example…

Not all peaces are equal. One peace might be that of some idyllic utopia where all are content, healthy, and safe. Then there is the peace of the death camp which has completed its mission and has no victims left to murder. And countless peaces in between those two extremes, some better and less violent, some gruesome and traumatizing even just to describe.

I cannot say which peace the Nobel awards, or even if it awards to the same sort of peace year to year. But if anyone can do something about the Iranian government, then maybe they do deserve the thing. I doubt he ever meant it to become the "successful eternal subjugation of humanity" award.

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