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MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

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Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#131

Post by summarity »

mulmen wrote: post #110
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statistics I've seen (on California[1]) suggest that homeless folks are generally locals, not migrants? But I agree that just providing some usb ports on public transit (likely also in stations or at stops) would be a low-cost/high-benefit approach. For human-powered approaches, I will say that old OLPC hand crank was a good design, since it clamped to a table or railing, which allowed for clever 'hacks' like hoi…

I would love to see a USB port that can withstand public transit use. Just as a design exercise that would be fascinating.

That’s standard in say Berlin busses. Just a small pod with two connectors. Probably gets replaced once damaged enough.

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#132

Post by helsinkiandrew »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #19
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an art/design project by an undergraduate student - not necessarily a serious product. But I wonder if cycling backwards is still easier than using a hand crank

Using a hand crank for 30 minutes? Nah... pedaling will definitely be easier.

That's actually what I meant.

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#133

Post by sambazi »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #122
Kye wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same mistake the OLPC people made. When you're broke and struggling to feed yourself, you aren't going to waste precious calories cranking to charge a battery. You're going to bum enough off someone to have a calorie-rich drink while you charge in a coffee shop or find a public outlet you can sneak some juice off of.

I met a number of people involved in OLPC and every single one of them was an insufferably smug tool with a massive white-savior complex. Kids in Africa didn't need a hand-crankable laptop. They needed clean water to survive infancy, light to be able to study by, and to not be captured and turned into soldiers.

> light to be able to study by

this was the point of olpc?

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#134

Post by FirmwareBurner »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #122
Kye wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same mistake the OLPC people made. When you're broke and struggling to feed yourself, you aren't going to waste precious calories cranking to charge a battery. You're going to bum enough off someone to have a calorie-rich drink while you charge in a coffee shop or find a public outlet you can sneak some juice off of.

I met a number of people involved in OLPC and every single one of them was an insufferably smug tool with a massive white-savior complex. Kids in Africa didn't need a hand-crankable laptop. They needed clean water to survive infancy, light to be able to study by, and to not be captured and turned into soldiers.

>every single one of them was an insufferably smug tool with a massive white-savior complex.

Silicon Valley nailed it.[1]

These tech people thinking they're "saving Africa" with crankable laptops are just like the former Crypto pundits you'd see roaming around here in the comments preaching how crypto will save Africa from poverty.

[1] https://youtu.be/ETi_UpG8D_k?si=2EgVaMer-_bFOg2M

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#135

Post by FearNotDaniel »

imtringued wrote: post #123
spaintech wrote: post #26

While I applaud the intent to bring the issue of homelessness to the forefront of the media, I feel like this project is more about gaining self attention for the project rather than solving the issue all together. The ~20GBP for the 18650 or 27500 batteries, the probably ~5GBP of the PCB needed, ~15GBP for the chain hardware and magnets, you are looking for a >40GBP to put this together, you can today get a <10GBP U…

Don't tell me you have never used a hand crank. The bicycle dynamo thing is stupid, but at least the expectation is that you charge while you are on the go without thinking too much about it. It makes your bicycle slower, but that is about it. Meanwhile your idea requires hours upon hours of doing nothing but handcranking.

> the expectation is that you charge while you are on the go

Not at all, according to the article text. The expectation is that you will pedal backwards for 25 minutes on a stationary bike, without paying to remove it from the docking station. And slightly further down it says the colour is chosen to match the bike "so as not to attract attention". Doesn't really add up.

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#136

Post by londons_explore »

diydsp wrote: post #84
londons_explore wrote: post #13

Nice prototype, but it doesn't actually work does it? Turns out that to transfer any significant torque (and therefore energy), you need either a larger gear, or a larger subtended angle, or a higher chain tension - and ideally all three. Since this device has none of those, I can be pretty confident that even after hours of pedalling, you won't have a charged phone. In fact, the video even shows the chain jumping sh…

Your comments about the gear size, etc. are interesting, but I don't see how they're strictly necessary. Can you explain? For example, can't an arbitrarily small gear work as long as the force contributing to the torque is sufficient? And isn't the force a product of the driving force (human leg/crank) and the load on the generator? And we can't see the load on the generator, so there may well be step-up gearing and…

> gear size, etc. are interesting, but I don't see how they're strictly necessary. Can you explain?

Simple: The chain won't grip the gear.

Gears must be designed such that the chain never intersects the gear (two things can't be in the same place at the same time). That precludes 'hooks' on the teeth of the gear, and means that the face of the gear tooth must be perpendicular to the chain link. However, that means that at any other angle, the angle of the tooth is providing a small component in a direction that pushes the chain off the tooth.

When your chain is contacting many teeth, this force gets smaller by 1-cos(angle between teeth) per tooth - so after about 6 teeth or so, the force is so tiny as to be irrelevant. However, in OP's design there is minimal tension and only 1 tooth touching at a time, so the chain will jump off the teeth.

There is a huge and very old field of chain and sprocket design, the details of which I am not very familiar, but I do know the basic rules of "some non-zero tension", "bigger subtended angle=better" and "engage as many teeth as possible".

(other interesting chain facts: the invention of the bicycle was enabled by the invention of sufficiently good chains. chains are better lubricated by grease not oil. chain wear gets exponentially worse, not linearly. centripetal force limits fast moving chains. )

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#137

Post by Contusion3532 »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #60
khaki54 wrote: post #55

There is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless person to do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this would actually take. By and large homeless are in such despair that they won't invest in activities that will benefit them in the future. If by some miracle this actually took off and all the bikes were now in use by homeless, non-paying customers, bike rental companies would implement blocking meas…

> There is approx zero chance that you can get a homeless person to do labor for 20 minutes, let alone the 2-5 hours this would actually take. And yet homeless people do labor. In fact routine living often requires much, much, much more labor when homeless, than when housed. They even have jobs. I worked when I was homeless (but was fired when they found out). That was long ago. Since then it's more difficult to find…

Wow. What was their justification for firing you because of your lack of housing?

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#138

Post by DoctorOetker »

gnsdrths wrote: post #46
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure of the demographics in your region but are you sure your perception of homelessness is correct? Or is it just a bias where you only see the ones who aren’t busy trying to dig out?

Most of the homeless in my city migrated here from outside of the city (and often State) to come here for our weather, services, and lax attitude towards drug use as far as demographics go. We're a navy town so there's also a tragic sub-group of veterans with mental health issues but the bulk of our homeless (we actually use the term "transient" as side context) don't fall into this category and mainly came here for…

> so a bike with charging capabilities would be both a mobility boost (again assuming theft wasn't a concern) and a general utility boost.

From article: > Talbot's product takes advantage of the fact that, without having to pay to take out one of these bikes, their chain will still move when pedalling backwards.

There is no mobility boost. It warms my heart someone is trying to think of ways for the homeless to recharge any portable electronics, but I think buying a solar panel, battery, charge management electronics would be of more immediate help.

Regarding the issue of theft, a sort of exoskeleton with styrofoam panels to stay warm during winter, and a heat exchanger to keep not just temperature but also inside humidity under control would be very welcome. But it seems not much research is going into housing in the shape of a suit, nor in clothes designed to be worn for very long durations at a time.

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#139

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

onthecanposting wrote: post #83
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can charge phones in any public library. ..have access to some kind of facility to charge phones, have a shower and do laundry. You describe a different universe from US homelessness. Here there might be a tiny bit of religious outreach but the public (therefor public services) tends to lean toward hostility.

Homeless I've encountered are usually well fed and clothed and they always have cell phones. This includes the registered sex offenders with face tattoos.

It sounds like you encounter a fairly exclusive group of homeless folks. It's certainly unusual that they id themselves as sex offenders to you.

I've been interacting with the local homeless community for over a decade. My ex is one.

The only thing most of them are is homeless.

Most have cell phones for a little while - until it gets lost or stolen or broken. Most are fed regularly sometimes and not other times. They have varying degrees of shelter on an irregular basis.

Few are well clothed in a way that wouldn't be a concern in a job interview (or going inside a market or library). Few have a reliably usable address.

In short, they fairly well represent unhoused Americans all over.

Re: MyPowerbank hacks Santander bikes so London's homeless can charge their phones

#140

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

mainpassathome wrote: post #130
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most homeless people in the UK will be aware that they can charge phones in any public library. ..have access to some kind of facility to charge phones, have a shower and do laundry. You describe a different universe from US homelessness. Here there might be a tiny bit of religious outreach but the public (therefor public services) tends to lean toward hostility.

even then, at least in canada the average library will have phone chargers available to borrow, i cant imagine it being that different south of the border

Most of the population in general here isn't getting to a library without a car. Under 1% live in walking distance. There's a limited bus system that reaches one library.

Generally speaking, only housed folks are getting to the library.

For unhoused that do make it to the library, must run a strong risk of having the police called on them.

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