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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#131

Post by ghusto »

ribosometronome wrote: post #127
account-5 wrote: post #9

About time. Never understood how apple seemed immune to this when the likes of Google and Microsoft were targeted for their monopolistic behaviour.

Microsoft controlled >90% of the entire desktop computing market when they ran into anti-trust issues with the EU. I suppose I'm not old enough to remember, but I don't recall the argument at the time being "They control 100% of the Windows market". Perhaps it was? Comparatively, it looks like Apple has marketshare in the EU is somewhere between 25 and 40% of the mobile phone market, depending on your source.

> "They control 100% of the Windows market". Perhaps it was?

Kind of. The argument was that since they controlled 100% of Windows, and "coerced" people into using IE (and "coerced" is a kind way of putting it), and Windows was 90% of the desktop market, that shit was bad for everyone.

40% of the mobile market is significant, when you consider that the other 60% isn't held by a single company.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#132

Post by marcosdumay »

yreg wrote: post #93
marcosdumay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you.

I want to download them from the App Store. I use Instagram, but I want it to play by Apple's rules. Surely you understand what I mean.

Yes, I get what you want. You want to coerce everybody that brought a phone like yours into your cause, due to its sanctity.

And also, for some reason you are afraid that most people that brought that phone will refuse to join if not coerced.

That first one is morally wrong. And the second one of factually wrong.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#133

Post by surgical_fire »

EtienneK wrote: post #90
marcosdumay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you.

If I can only get WhatsApp from the Meta Store then, yes, I’m forced.

That does not happen on Android though.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#134

Post by amadeuspagel »

In these discussions I often see a dichotomy between freedom and security. At the limit it's true that if you have complete control over a device, you can screw it up.

But you can have a lot more freedom without sacrificing security. For a start, you can have a web browser that supports the latest web APIs. For me, that would be enough, but you could also add a Linux VM. (Then you would have ChromeOS, basically.)

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#135

Post by wizofaus »

Will this include the ability to compile apps for iOS without requiring Apple made hardware/software (that specifically must run on MacOS)? Have never understood why developers haven't kicked up more of a fuss over that restriction, but it's why I would never write iOS apps as a hobby.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#137

Post by evilduck »

kwanbix wrote: post #40
evilduck wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple holds no monopolies unless you trivialize the definition to include virtually everything.

Doesn't Apple hold a monopoly on the iPhone/iPad ecosystem? Why am I not allowed to install Firefox or Chrome (real Firefox or Chrome)?

Yes. But this is trivializing the definition of monopoly I just warned against.

What can't be construed with this logic?

Verizon holds a monopoly on the devices they allow on the Verizon network. Wal-Mart holds a monopoly on the products they allow on their retail floor space. Xbox holds a monopoly on their game compatibility. McDonalds holds a monopoly on selling burgers inside McDonalds. You can define these trivial "micromonopolies" on literally everything you want. Which is why courts have never punished any company for this nonsense line of reasoning, especially when it's on a company that holds no actual "macromonopoly", and monopolies by virtue of existing aren't illegal anyways.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#138

Post by aaomidi »

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

> But that policy should then also apply to PlayStation, X-box, Tesla infotainment, etc.

I want the forced to open up to competitors to be applied to everyone.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#139

Post by robertlagrant »

andersa wrote: post #83
robertlagrant wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this going to try and turn iPhones into general purpose computing devices? Currently they're much more locked down than that.

People already use their phones for everything in our modern society, so they have simply declared them to be that, regardless of what Apple thinks about it. Even if I'd personally like it, I don't think the same argument makes much sense for a PS5 - when have you last used it to order groceries or new furniture? Apple would love to get a cut of those purchases, by the way. Starting by dealing with the devices that h…

> Starting by dealing with the devices that have the highest impact on the largest number of people, due to a runaway capitalistic empire trying to add an additional tax to everything that vaguely gets near it, has a higher chance of actually succeeding.

This is the worst approach, I think. Lawmaking shouldn't work where a juicy fineable target is spotted, singled out, and milked for all it's worth. Laws should set out rules that everyone has to follow.

Also, it might be hard to order groceries on a PS5, but it's much simpler to make a PS5 able to browse the Web than it is to open up an iPhone to any HTML-rendering code, or background tasks, without compromising the seamless experience reasons many people bought one for in the first place.

> due to a runaway capitalistic empire trying to add an additional tax to everything that vaguely gets near it

It's not due to a runaway capitalistic empire. It's because it made stuff people really want, so they'll pay for it. You're thinking of political structures, where people are forced to pay taxes regardless of the outcomes. Apple are rich because they make things people want. That's not a runaway empire. That's just being really, really useful. This gross mischaracterisation of useful structures as empires is astonishing and unhelpful to any clarity of thought.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#140

Post by aaomidi »

threeseed wrote: post #95
marcosdumay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you.

Except this is a disingenuous argument. Because there will be many applications you may need to use e.g. banking which will be on an alternative App Store purely so they can skirt Apple's privacy restrictions. Finance is one sector where they would love to siphon all of your user data in order to better promote products and reduce risk. And so I would be forced to use them.

You can switch banks? Trust me if these banks are only following the rules because of Apple, I can guarantee you their backend is definitely not following these privacy rules.

Also, OS level permissions don’t need to go away for third party apps.

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