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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#131

Post by anonymouse008 »

azinman2 wrote: post #114

My impractical solution: no resale of tickets, and check of ID at the door. It’ll slow things down for check in, and people sick will miss out, but it will collectively bring prices down and increase seat availability.

This is the only true solution. There’s a few things to work out legally - but they are all solvable. Perhaps there should be a seat transfer portal that opens 24-48 hours before (or at some specified time) for those true extenuating circumstances so family members or friends could get access to tickets. Otherwise, first principles says end transferability to end the secondary market.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#132

Post by notyourwork »

hyldmo wrote: post #80

I’m not going to speak on how this could be hard to implement in other countries, but in my country selling a ticket above the price it was bought for is illegal, and as a result (maybe there is other factors in in play but) it’s basically a non-issue here

I’ve never heard this, what country?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#133

Post by SoftTalker »

TylerE wrote: post #109
codelikeawolf wrote: post #91

I quickly scanned the article, so I might have missed this, but can someone explain how sites like StubHub get away with what they do? As soon as I found out about them, I immediately thought "aren't these people just scalpers that offer tickets on the internet instead of standing out in front of venues?" If the argument is that they're not scalpers , they're resellers , then I'd like to try selling some concert tick…

Scalping is legal in most jurisdictions, sometimes with restrictions (“no selling within 1000ft of the venue for more than 20% over face”.

As it should be, without restrictions. Basically First Sale doctrine. If I buy something, I own it and should be able to sell it at market price.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#134

Post by kelnos »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #88
dilyevsky wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is completely made up example - I’ve been to events that do this and you’re typically allowed to purchase 2-4 tickets per id

That doesn't work for honest people when the person who used their ID is the one who can't go. And you now have a new scalping model where you create a website for people to submit their IDs ahead of time and pay a fee to have someone try to get them a ticket in the two seconds before they sell out, but they buy 2-4 tickets per ID and resell the others.

Simple fix for that: require the concertgoer to physically present the ID when arriving at the concert.

They can also just disallow multiple tickets per ID.

To clarify the proposed process: you buy one or more tickets online, and you're required to put full names to those tickets when you purchase them. You are not permitted to change those names later. You can return the tickets (minus some "restocking" fee), but that's all you're allowed to do; no transfers.

When the time comes to attend the concert, everyone brings their ID, and the ticket checker matches the names on the IDs with the names on the tickets. No match, no entry.

There is certainly one hole: tickets are still scarce, so someone could set up a website where they claim they'll guarantee you a ticket (because they have fast internet connections and legions of low-paid grunts clicking furiously at the website), and then charge a large premium on top of the ticket price in order to do so. You either give them your Ticketmaster (or whatever) account credentials, or they even "give" you an account after buying the ticket for you, all with your name on it. I do think this would inflate some ticket prices, but I feel like the situation would still be much better than it is now.

On top of that, the ticket seller can just ban these sorts of websites. Again, not perfect, as they'll do everything they can to circumvent the ban, but you can probably make things difficult enough for them that their value prop doesn't really work out all that well, and they fail to get tickets often enough that they end up with a bad reputation.

Really, ticket scalping should just be illegal, and law enforcement should crack down hard on these kinds of outfits.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#135

Post by bombcar »

hackeraccount wrote: post #60
username332211 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, most go to the venue, which the artist/producer would have had to pay for (from the ticket price) otherwise. Because money is fungible it doesn't really matter if they pay the artist, or if they pay for the artist's expenses. What matters is how much fees they charge and how much do they keep. Can't find it right now, but I remember an article claiming they rarely keep 50% of their fees.

I don't have a source but I've read the same thing; that a lot of what ticket master takes in is getting bounced around. It's a view I find very plausible intuitively. The artists (esp. the "name" artists) have all or nearly all of the leverage - whatever the ticket costs above what you'd paid if you bought at the gate is money they're leaving on the table.

It’s not just Ticketmaster.

Many “event platforms” allow you to add fees that cover the credit card percentage, but if they’re higher you just get to keep the extra.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#136

Post by Ferret7446 »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #23
nayuki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take off the "/s", because I agree with your statement at face value. If there are a limited number of tickets but many thousands of fans who are willing and able to pay, then naturally the price goes up. And whether you like it or not, people are either paying with money, or paying with time (e.g. waiting in line), or paying with frustration (e.g. going through opaque scalping networks). The root cause of th…

> The root cause of the problem isn't scalpers; it's the original concert seller either setting too low a price or too low a quantity. Imagine viewing a pricing scheme that allows more socioeconomic groups access to the arts as the core problem. We're experiencing a great decline and fall as social services are failing, wages stagnating, and common cultural experiences are being squeezed for profit, only enabling the…

The core problem is reality. Scarcity is reality. Free market economics, supply and demand is reality.

You can try to ignore the equilibrium price point, just as you might ignore gravity, but reality will assert itself. Scalpers will always exist to rebalance the supply and demand equality.

If you want to make something available to more socioeconomic groups, increase the supply. Simple as.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#137

Post by driscoll42 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #133
TylerE wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scalping is legal in most jurisdictions, sometimes with restrictions (“no selling within 1000ft of the venue for more than 20% over face”.

As it should be, without restrictions. Basically First Sale doctrine. If I buy something, I own it and should be able to sell it at market price.

There's a significant difference between buying something and reselling, and then having bots buying hundreds/thousands and reselling.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#138

Post by SoftTalker »

flangola7 wrote: post #99
ChadNauseam wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic doesn't quite work because the same number of people would get to go in either scenario

Same number but not same the community, since this pushes out anyone who can't afford it. Artists are usually not MBA types trying to minmax profit and want to appeal to more than just the privileged Coachella crowd.

The artists may not be MBA types but their managers are. If the artists really cared they could do like Garth Brooks (?) and book repeated nights in one venue until the shows no longer sell out.

(I may be wrong about the artist but recall reading about at least one act that toured like this).

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#139

Post by bufferoverflow »

azinman2 wrote: post #114

My impractical solution: no resale of tickets, and check of ID at the door. It’ll slow things down for check in, and people sick will miss out, but it will collectively bring prices down and increase seat availability.

Or just make it an auction. Every ticket goes to the highest bidder.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#140

Post by bombcar »

nickelpro wrote: post #87
hooverd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if artists negotiate ranges on ticket prices. But I assume most would want to make an acceptable amount of money and allow most of their fans to afford tickets, not just the rich ones.

Most of their fans aren't going to the show at all. Demand far outstrips supply. In effect the number of less wealthy fans who can get into a show is a lottery. Ideally you would do just that, lottery off some tickets at affordable rates and sell the rest at market rate. But the market has adjusted to that too and re-sellers dominate such lotteries. If you offer the opportunity for arbitrage, the market will take adv…

It’s a perfect case for market segmentation - cheaper “less desirable” tickets that are NOT transferable (eg., tied to ID somehow, I could see them being cryptographically tied to a Apple Pay account, for example) and more expensive transferable tickets designed to soak the rich.
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