131–140 of 380 posts
I don't know whether we deserve a union or not. I do know that I emphatically do not want or need one. I make the amount of money I need. I have my pick of jobs if I feel undervalued by the place I work. Under no circumstances do I want to be forced to pay dues into a union that is unlikely to represent me in the company or politically. Since I have no need or desire there is no reason for me to consider the question…
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Why would a 10x engineer object to improved working conditions for all? Some general hatred for coworkers?
I didn't say they would object, just that they aren't incentivized to care about it. It doesn't help the 10xer's bottom line, and the conditions at the "bottom" of tech are some of the best of any profession.
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If you are on an assembly line and you have 45 s to do your job you either do it, or don't. If you do it fast and wait for 40 s you don't add any value.
Unions add the same kind of value whether you're writing a Hollywood screenplay or assembling a Tesla because you have the same relationship to capital either way. The same divide/conquer tactic was done 100 years ago when owners of mines in Pennsylvania pitted white and black miners against each other. The actual distinction doesn't matter to the owners provided it divides labor. Anything that makes you feel special…
I don't know whether we deserve a union or not. I do know that I emphatically do not want or need one. I make the amount of money I need. I have my pick of jobs if I feel undervalued by the place I work. Under no circumstances do I want to be forced to pay dues into a union that is unlikely to represent me in the company or politically. Since I have no need or desire there is no reason for me to consider the question…
Don't unions work best in fields where quality is very uniform and expertise counts for very little? I'm thinking about low skilled jobs that can be mastered in months or years. Unions create salary progression, and benefits for seniority where there is otherwise no reason for them to exist. When no one does anything better than anyone else, it makes sense to negotiate as a block, individuals have no power. Now compa…
If you want to see what happens in a collective bargaining system you can come to Sweden. Here the best engineers make about 1.25x what the worst make. Also, everybody makes a lot less than in the US.
> 20% of the field, with 80% of the negotiating power…
In a free market those 20% have 80% of the negotiating power, true. But in a union they only have 20% of the votes. So what will happen? See above.
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This idea crops up so frequently that Ive started calling it the "Apparently Tom Cruise Works in a Factory" fallacy.
Is Tom Cruise represented by a union?
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I think we're still in such a good position relative to everyone else in society that it's difficult to see the need for collective bargaining. The skills are in demand and not easily replicated. There are enough tech jobs that the solution to almost any workplace issue is to quit and work somewhere else - often for more pay. > The best engineers are worth literally 10x the worst engineers Lots of people will claim t…
>I think we're still in such a good position relative to everyone else in society that it's difficult to see the need for collective bargaining. Corps have been pushing down wages for decades. Here's some methods: - Offshoring - Automation - Skeleton teams - Long hours - Removal of bonuses for anyone but managers - Removal of signing bonuses (this was a thing in the late 90s) - Recruiters posing mid level people as s…
What that highlights is just how bad the inequality curve really is, that the 0.1% right on one edge have exceptional power to make decisions which make the rest worse off.
What this means is that any tech union is going to have to extend a bit of solidarity out to lower paid and ""lower skilled"" people against whom we have traditionally been snobbish, in order to be successful. See the Hollywood millionares out donating to the rest of their picket lines, for example.
You can't just look "up" the curve at your salary getting ever higher. You have to look "down" as well, without contempt.
> "anyone is replaceable," is still true
Was it Napoleon who said "the graveyards are full of irreplaceable men"? Also true.
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The average software developer makes $110k/yr, and there's a clear differentiation between having a million dollars (or million s ) in your 20s and 30s compared to retiring with $2-3 million in a 401k that you need to live off of for four decades.
I just keep thinking about the fact that literally everyone in my family makes less than that. To say that a developer _only_ makes 110K is high level privilege in many places including tech hubs. 110K is more than a whole household makes in my metro area. The average dev out earns dual income family. This is why I spend a lot of think wondering what could a union even do for me? I work in comfort. If I work long hou…
I mean the same thing it does for Tom Cruise.
You're really thinking about this the wrong way. Companies all the time join trade groups and pay membership fees to coordinate their efforts. Are you going to argue that companies are making a fiscally irresponsible decision?
A union is strictly the same thing as a trade group except its membership is labor and not management.
Has no one heard of the CWA? They were huge back when I live in California. Granted that was quite a long time ago and when telco's were a major power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Workers_of_Amer...