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Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

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Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#131
hi there, as many of you know, i am the creator of htmx and I'm happy to answer any questions about it

htmx has seen a surge in popularity, triggered by a video by fireship dev (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-GSGH2RxJs) and a series of videos by ThePrimeagen, a popular twitch streamer on it

hacker news readers might be interested in the essays I have written on htmx & hypermedia in general here:

https://htmx.org/essays

and in a book I authored with a few other writers that we recently released on hypermedia, htmx and a mobile hypermedia called Hyperview:

https://hypermedia.systems

while I am a fan of htmx, obviously, I think the deeper concept that it touches on is hypermedia, which is a worthwhile idea for people to explore even if they don't plan on using it in day-to-day programming.

There are also lots of other great hypermedia-oriented libraries worth checking out such as Hotwire from 37signals, or, my favorite after htmx, https://unpoly.com

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#132
post #75

I've a hard time taking htmx serious for building a modern web app/site. It makes is impossible to build features that users have come to expect: * Faceted search with configurable filters, like filter date on before, between or after, but only show the filter if the user wants it. * Configure result view with different columns or even different views like maps or drawing something on a canvas like charts. You can ma…

i have build exactly a UI like this with htmx and _hyperscript

something like this is complex enough to require some front end scripting, which I am not opposed to:

https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-friendly-scripting/

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#133
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic, but: > The right to erasure is also known as ‘the right to be forgotten’. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re...

no such right exists; that would be like the right to rob with impunity of course clever demagogues and rhetoricians can write such things into legislation, just as they can write legislation that claims you have no right to speak freely, but that just makes the legislation incorrect, like the famous legislation declaring pi to be exactly 3

European citizen have such right. You can ask for your removal from Google search results for instance.

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#134

Great news. I have had good success and a rewarding experience using htmx the past year. It has been so great in tandem with Clojure using hiccup for SSR. Once htmx clicks for you, you are almost left stunned by how simple and flexible it is. You can't believe that this isn't how HTML evolved to as a hypermedia. It becomes very obvious that this is how web development should have evolved. I hope someday that what htm…

> It becomes very obvious that this is how web development should have evolved. I have to disagree with that. I’m happy htmx exists and that it works for many but in my professional life I've found few cases where it's the best choice. And that’s fine! It’s a wonderful thing that the web has been able to grow in so many diverse ways, there should be no one way it “should have evolved”. IMO this is the biggest mistake…

That's fair. I agree - that type of blanket statement is not helpful in the technical realm. I should have kept it at just: HTML should have continued to be expanded into what htmx is doing.

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#135
post #105

If you think htmx is cool, check out _hyperscript https://hyperscript.org/ . Made by the same people, available with htmx I believe. After seeing _hyperscript, it looks like they may have invented that first, and a lot of people's heads exploded, so they decided to try to make a "gateway drug" to sneakily introduce _hyperscript, and came up with htmx.

:) hyperscript came after htmx

htmx is version 2 of intercoolerjs:

https://intercoolerjs.org

which had a proto-scripting language in it, the `ic-action` attribute:

https://intercoolerjs.org/attributes/ic-action

i dropped that attribute (along w/ the jQuery dependency) when I created htmx, but I felt there was some merit to the idea of a lightweight scripting language that abstracted away async behavior. Once htmx had stabilized I revisited the idea, remembered my experience w/ HyperTalk as a young programmer, and decided to take a shot at that, but for the browser.

I'm very happy with how it worked out, although I expect it will always be niche when compared with htmx, which has much broader applicability and isn't as insane looking. :)

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#136
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no such right exists; that would be like the right to rob with impunity of course clever demagogues and rhetoricians can write such things into legislation, just as they can write legislation that claims you have no right to speak freely, but that just makes the legislation incorrect, like the famous legislation declaring pi to be exactly 3

I'm confused, on what kind of metaphysical plane do you think rights live if you think they exist independently from the law?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

(https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcrip... the US Declaration of Independence, expressing the motivation for independence from Europe)

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law, (...)

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...

Natural law theories base human rights on a "natural" moral, religious or even biological order which is independent of transitory human laws or traditions.

Socrates and his philosophic heirs, Plato and Aristotle, posited the existence of natural justice or natural right (dikaion physikon, δικαιον φυσικον, Latin ius naturale). Of these, Aristotle is often said to be the father of natural law, although evidence for this is due largely to the interpretations of his work by Thomas Aquinas.

The development of this tradition of natural justice into one of natural law is usually attributed to the Stoics.

Some of the early Church fathers sought to incorporate the until then pagan concept of natural law into Christianity. Natural law theories have featured greatly in the philosophies of Thomas Aquinas, Francisco Suárez, Richard Hooker, Thomas Hobbes, Hugo Grotius, Samuel von Pufendorf, and John Locke.

In the Seventeenth Century Thomas Hobbes founded a contractualist theory of legal positivism on what all men could agree upon: what they sought (happiness) was subject to contention, but a broad consensus could form around what they feared (violent death at the hands of another). The natural law was how a rational human being, seeking to survive and prosper, would act. It was discovered by considering humankind's natural rights, whereas previously it could be said that natural rights were discovered by considering the natural law. In Hobbes' opinion, the only way natural law could prevail was for men to submit to the commands of the sovereign. In this lay the foundations of the theory of a social contract between the governed and the governor.

Hugo Grotius based his philosophy of international law on natural law. He wrote that "even the will of an omnipotent being cannot change or abrogate" natural law, which "would maintain its objective validity even if we should assume the impossible, that there is no God or that he does not care for human affairs." (De iure belli ac pacis, Prolegomeni XI). This is the famous argument etiamsi daremus (non-esse Deum), that made natural law no longer dependent on theology.

John Locke incorporated natural law into many of his theories and philosophy, especially in Two Treatises of Government. Locke turned Hobbes' prescription around, saying that if the ruler went against natural law and failed to protect "life, liberty, and property," people could justifiably overthrow the existing state and create a new one.

The Belgian philosopher of law Frank van Dun is one among those who are elaborating a secular conception of natural law in the liberal tradition. There are also emerging and secular forms of natural law theory that define human rights as derivative of the notion of universal human dignity.

The term "human rights" has replaced the term "natural rights" in popularity, because the rights are less and less frequently seen as requiring natural law for their existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Philosophies_of_h...

Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal, fundamental and inalienable (they cannot be repealed by human laws, though one can forfeit their enjoyment through one's actions, such as by violating someone else's rights). Natural law is the law of natural rights. (...)

Natural law first appeared in ancient Greek philosophy, and was referred to by Roman philosopher Cicero. It was subsequently alluded to in the Bible, and then developed in the Middle Ages by Catholic philosophers such as Albert the Great and his pupil Thomas Aquinas. During the Age of Enlightenment, the concept of natural laws was used to challenge the divine right of kings, and became an alternative justification for the establishment of a social contract, positive law, and government – and thus legal rights – in the form of classical republicanism. Conversely, the concept of natural rights is used by others to challenge the legitimacy of all such establishments.

The idea of human rights derives from theories of natural rights. Those rejecting a distinction between human rights and natural rights view human rights as the successor that is not dependent on natural law, natural theology, or Christian theological doctrine. Natural rights, in particular, are considered beyond the authority of any government or international body to dismiss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights_and_legal_right...

more generally, though, the idea that good and evil can exist independently of law is foundational to most philosophical systems; if you reject that, you necessarily reject that laws can be evil in ways that go beyond mere internal inconsistency

though they are not based on conceptions of individual rights, taoism, confucianism, and almost any kind of theism posit a moral authority that is higher than any human law and can therefore condemn it

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#137

HTMX reminds me of pjax which I really liked I did a lot of sideprojects in Knockout and one large one in Angularjs 1. I feel all the frontend frameworks need to talk about what they see the problems are and decide how to fix them. I would like some solid foundations and avoidance of common pain and gotchas of scale and complexity. My old sideprojects are broken because I didn't fix library versions. My JSBIN sqlite…

yes, intercooler.js (which was the first version of htmx) was heavily influenced by my experience with pjax!

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#138
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Law Disagrees. Feel free to Geoblock the entire market if you disagree. Many small news sites in the states do this.

Does that work? If I’m an EU citizen accessing a site from outside the EU, don’t I still have the right to be forgotten?

Yes

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#139

Great news. I have had good success and a rewarding experience using htmx the past year. It has been so great in tandem with Clojure using hiccup for SSR. Once htmx clicks for you, you are almost left stunned by how simple and flexible it is. You can't believe that this isn't how HTML evolved to as a hypermedia. It becomes very obvious that this is how web development should have evolved. I hope someday that what htm…

> I have had good success and a rewarding experience using htmx the past year. It has been so great in tandem with Clojure using hiccup for SSR.

What kind of app are you working on?

Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator

#140
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Law Disagrees. Feel free to Geoblock the entire market if you disagree. Many small news sites in the states do this.

[flagged]

You disagreeing with something doesn't make it wrong. I'm sorry, but people in other parts of the world have a right to be forgotten, no matter how much you want to pretend they do not.
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