131–140 of 160 posts
[1] https://marionrecord.com/credit/subscription:MARION+COUNTY+R...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A quick search revealed at least 10 distinct incidents in the US over the last 4 years (mainly in summer 2020) of reporters identifying themselves as such, and then being attacked by police. I haven't done the work to see how often there were repercussions for those attacks, but I'm willing to be its pretty rare.
Your quick search doesn't seem to have revealed something that is the same as the story we're discussing. Like, I totally agree with you about qualified immunity and law enforcement abuses of power, but come on, you're using this story to make extremely tangential points. This isn't an example of law enforcement attacks on the press going unpunished. I saw this on the Today show this morning. This is mainstream natio…
My claim is that there's less distance in the mind of the police between beating up a reporter for taking pictures of the police behaving badly, and raiding a newspaper for investigating reports of the police behaving badly.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
At least one of those is currently buried on 3rd page, despite "110 points by uptown 1 hour ago | ... | 19 comments". It sounds like a tragic and suspicious situation, and what I'm most curious about (since this is HN) is whether the federal government will step in, and figure out what's going on.
Every one of these turns into a flamewar of cynical "America bad, corruption is the norm, there is no free press, etc." comments.
Btw, from what I got by glancing past the comments in the original post, whoever runs this newspaper is a total rat. What started all this is the newspaper snitching on a self-employed woman who lost her driver's license 15 years ago, and telling the police she's still using it for her job. This doesn't excuse the raid, but god I hate petty small town people.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have to prosecute and pursue justice after the crime/s, not before. Justice is rarely a fast event While I'm sympathetic to your comment in isolation, do you think there is any chance that after the slow wheels of justice do turn, these violent thugs and their facilitators are actually going to end up in prison for armed assault, robbery, kidnapping, criminal conspiracy, etc? This is the breakdown in the rule o…
They are going to end up in prison for different crimes than those ones. (Although "criminal conspiracy" will show up in there somewhere, probably.) I don't think the specific crimes are really the point here... This is not a demonstration of the breakdown of the rule of law, until the law actually fails to act on it. And I think that's incredibly unlikely at this point. But maybe the justice system will indeed fail…
And actually I'd say this substitution of different crimes is definitely part of the problem. Having a parallel set of laws that apply to government employees is still preserving this notion of a two class justice system where cops are immune from regular laws. If anything, the perps should be charged with both the various color of law framings for the damage to their institutions and for the straightforward crimes of their personal actions outside of their lawful employment duties.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are going to end up in prison for different crimes than those ones. (Although "criminal conspiracy" will show up in there somewhere, probably.) I don't think the specific crimes are really the point here... This is not a demonstration of the breakdown of the rule of law, until the law actually fails to act on it. And I think that's incredibly unlikely at this point. But maybe the justice system will indeed fail…
Sure, in this specific case nothing has happened yet that implies the rule of law has entirely broken down. The real problem driving the national outrage is the long pattern of the justice system not sufficiently binding government employees to the law. If this violent gang was not also employed as police officers, then we'd expect arrests and charges within a week or so. So that's around when we can say that the jus…
Fine, you want to have a broader discussion, that's your prerogative. But it's just not true that the current facts of this case are evidence for anything going wrong in US society. That doesn't mean nothing is! I'm honestly not interested in having that broader nuanced discussion in this forum. But I am interested in pointing out nonsense when I see it, and using this case in its current state as evidence of any kind of break-down in the rule of law is just that: nonsense.
Edit to engage directly more:
This is not the same as a mob raiding a newspaper, because law enforcement is, for good reason, given the benefit of the doubt. Especially when they actually do involve the courts by getting a warrant. This makes it worse than a mob when they act corruptly, and especially when the courts also acted corruptly. It's worse, but in ways that make it slower to investigate. The criminality of a regular mob is clear, while the criminality of a law enforcement agency with the support of a judge is unclear. Whereas it would not be hasty to arrest all the members of the mob in a couple days, it would be hasty to arrest all the police officers and a judge prior to figuring out the full story, which takes time.
So no, the system has not failed if it takes more than a week to see arrests. It will likely take more like 6 months to a year. And yep, I would absolutely like complex investigations to go way faster, but it's not unusual or evidence of corruption when they take months or years, it's the normal state.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A quick search revealed at least 10 distinct incidents in the US over the last 4 years (mainly in summer 2020) of reporters identifying themselves as such, and then being attacked by police. I haven't done the work to see how often there were repercussions for those attacks, but I'm willing to be its pretty rare.
Your quick search doesn't seem to have revealed something that is the same as the story we're discussing. Like, I totally agree with you about qualified immunity and law enforcement abuses of power, but come on, you're using this story to make extremely tangential points. This isn't an example of law enforcement attacks on the press going unpunished. I saw this on the Today show this morning. This is mainstream natio…
OK, I'll bite. What was the punishment?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your quick search doesn't seem to have revealed something that is the same as the story we're discussing. Like, I totally agree with you about qualified immunity and law enforcement abuses of power, but come on, you're using this story to make extremely tangential points. This isn't an example of law enforcement attacks on the press going unpunished. I saw this on the Today show this morning. This is mainstream natio…
This isn't an example of law enforcement attacks on the press going unpunished. OK, I'll bite. What was the punishment?
Do you think this is a story about something that happened last year? This happened on Friday and started receiving attention two days later, which was yesterday. This is the third day since this happened. It will take months to investigate this kind of thing, and the actual punishment, after that investigation and trials, will be years from now.
If you want to have a conversation about how quickly investigations happen, fine, but three days is a completely absurd expectation.
If this gets buried and nobody deigns to prosecute it, I'll happily pick up my pitch fork and join the rest of you, but until then, for goodness sake, have some patience.
On top of the judge signing off on the warrant when this likely contradicted federal law, we have this: > When the newspaper asked for a copy of the probable cause affidavit required by law to issue a search warrant, the district court issued a signed statement saying no such affidavit was on file, the Record reported. Not a lawyer and I know it takes quite a lot for a judge to be disciplined but that would seem to b…
In my probable cause affidavit in Baltimore fabricated by the GTTF, They said they found white powedery residue in my garbage, but noone in the household consumes any while powedery drugs certainly not enough for there to be a garabge bag full of evidence to get a warrant. But somehow it happened in Baltimore too, "The greatest city in America!"[1] [1] https://www.wypr.org/2023-01-23/whats-with-those-the-greates...
I assume you've read or watched "We Own This City"? I'd be curious about your take on it.
Side note but I remember when they first rolled out that Baltimore bench slogan... I vaguely remember some explanations that the previous slogan ("The City that Reads") was also rather "aspirational", given the illiteracy rate.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn't an example of law enforcement attacks on the press going unpunished. OK, I'll bite. What was the punishment?
This just happened! The punishment is not a "was", it is a "will be"! Do you think this is a story about something that happened last year? This happened on Friday and started receiving attention two days later, which was yesterday. This is the third day since this happened. It will take months to investigate this kind of thing, and the actual punishment, after that investigation and trials, will be years from now. I…
If this gets buried and nobody deigns to prosecute it...
Is this one is the last straw, then?