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How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

economist.com

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Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#131

Post by jayd16 »

jjoonathan wrote: post #108
bagacrap wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

Because the business needs you to keep putting out fires in the old tool while your younger, cheaper replacement trains on the new tool!

Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#133

Post by AnimalMuppet »

addfgionio wrote: post #34
photochemsyn wrote: post #25

America's basic socioeconomic structual model is highly flawed and any company wanting to do manufacturing here will see obvious disadvantages compared to Europe or Asia. 1) Employers are responsible for employee health coverage, inflating employee costs by a significant degree. The rationale for this model among the investor class is that it makes employees dependent on their employer and limits the power of unions,…

>Construction and operation of new manufacturing facilities relies on a robust domestic infrastructure system, but American infrastructure (railroads, electricity grids, ports, etc.) is woefully decrepit in many areas and lags behind China and Europe. Again the reason is nobody wants to pay for it, A whole lot of people want to pay for it. The problem is that a minority doesn't, and they've been able to ruin things f…

I don't think much associated with fabs ships by rail, even in Europe.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#135

Post by lotsofpulp »

mcntsh wrote: post #105
frognumber wrote: post #67

My question: As an American, why should I work in IC fabrication? I'm competing with low-cost Asians who set a cap on my salary. Work conditions, income, and everything else is worse than SWE. I switched away from electronics early in my career, and it seems like a strict win. As much as I believe in on-shoring, I'm not sure those issues can, will, or should be fixed.

Honest question but won't these "low-cost Asians" not be as much of a factor on wages if the fabrications are in the US?

Depends if there are tariffs that incentivize purchase of more expensive American chips.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#136

Post by CamperBob2 »

jayd16 wrote: post #131
jjoonathan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the business needs you to keep putting out fires in the old tool while your younger, cheaper replacement trains on the new tool!

Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.

Is there anything a union can't help with, in your estimation?

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#137

Post by bigbillheck »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #120
KennyBlanken wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A commitment that apparently does not include: - treating anyone who isn't "white enough" with dignity and without extreme suspicion of being in the country illegally. Driving in texas and not white enough? You might end up in jail if you don't have sufficient proof on you that you're not "an illegal" - a reliable power grid, because they petulantly do not want to have to follow federal regulations in how they run sa…

The assumption here is that the politics of the state will continue to shift against extremism.

What do you mean 'continue'?

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#138

Post by robertlagrant »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #79
bagacrap wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

Because for this work it's cheaper for the company to hire a new person with a lower starting wage vs. keep employing and paying higher wages to more experienced workers. It's not the worker's fault they can't learn the new tool (they absolutely can learn it). It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else.

> It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else.

Sigh. The value you're talking about here is the cost of their labour. This is like a business owner saying that employees should value their jobs differently to their salary.

You're right in the sense that capitalism is fundamentally "people make agreements and decisions within what's available to them" but what's the actual issue you want capitalism to solve, that doesn't create one of the massive downsides that any of capitalism's former rivals has?

E.g. monarchy can reward loyalty, but then so can capitalism. Monarchy can just also tell you to go die on a field if you don't kill the other king's people.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#140

Post by robertlagrant »

systemvoltage wrote: post #106
stanfordkid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the ideal type of trade to build a union for?

This will be the end of semiconductor industry.

The end of it in the US. It'll carry on fine elsewhere.
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