Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

pr.tsmc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 526 posts

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#131

Post by littlestymaar »

gsatic wrote: post #120
rjzzleep wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

All this while demand is not growing like it once was. Lot of these projects will bomb. And the west doesnt have docile easy to dominate labour that east asia has. They will never achieve the same margins. And as soon as China-Taiwan chapter is over, corporate robots will happily return.

> And as soon as China-Taiwan chapter is over

That's a very strong prerequisite though… It may not be over for several decades to come.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#132

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

AdamN wrote: post #14

Sort of incredible that Germany is getting decade old technology for this much investment.

The older tech is a great deal. Instead of paying a huge premium for smaller nodes you get low cost and keep the margin for yourself.

Having the bleeding edge tech sounds great, but where are the customers that are going to pay for bleeding edge output and the countless billions of investment it takes to get set up to produce it?

Decade old technology sounds very sensible.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#133

Post by dtf »

dontlaugh wrote: post #128
js8 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

Singapore’s economy is also significantly planned, despite the opposite being the common knowledge. Same with South Korea.

I was kind of shocked to find this out too. For instance:

"As of 2020, 78.7% of Singapore residents live in public housing, down from a high of 88.0% in 2000."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#134

Post by r0b1n »

js8 wrote: post #125
KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

Eurozone leadership will never do that, because of national egoisms. Just look at how Airbus builds its airplanes, because everybody wants a slice, so they fly each airplane body halfway across the continent and back... And Airbus is just 4 nations (FR, DE, ES, UK). Collaboration across all of the Eurozone or all of the EU would be a mess of ITER-like proportions.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#135

Post by qlkjwenf »

HUGE mistake for TSMC! Don't forget that german authorities hate entrepreneurs and they will do whatever possible to make their life as excruciating as possible. Communism ideology founders (Marx, Engels etc.) were all born in Germany and this is not a coincidence.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#136

Post by tmoneyplease »

nntwozz wrote: post #56

Just want to share these relevant videos from Asianometry: How Semiconductors Ruined East Germany https://youtu.be/cxrkC-pMH_s Why Europe Lost Semiconductors https://youtu.be/5ZdmS-EAbHo Europe’s Lost Decades in Semiconductors https://youtu.be/PpSdytrNEBg It's great to get chip manufacturing back to Germany after all the struggles, even if it's not cutting edge.

Glad to see many fans of Asianometry.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#137

Post by oytis »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Nothing wrong with state subsidies, EU has just not been good at them historically (e.g. Galileo), and there is reasonable doubt that it is going to be better this time, as what they invest in is far from being a cutting edge technology.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#138

Post by LudwigNagasena »

js8 wrote: post #125
KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

First, what is your definition of neoliberalism?

Second, why do you think a country like Germany (where the ratio of government expenditure to GDP is around 50%) can be classified as “neoliberal” in the sense you mean it?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#139

Post by dontupvoteme »

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS.

Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA.

Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after Italy rightfully brought up issues with data privacy. Microsoft made him walk that one back real quick - he probably wasn't really aware that he is now one of their employees - but it hopefully got through to Brussels about how these guys want to operate.

We'll also probably get a lot better support for languges which aren't english (especially French, I really love their stubborn nature to stick with their langauge over the anglo one), an entire other scary effect of LLMs is the potential to accelerate language death

Very nice to see.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#140

Post by colechristensen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112
rjzzleep wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

> the US has been talking about bombing TSMC themselves[] The U.S. said nothing of the sort. One Congressman, in the minority no less, did.

Of course there is a plan somewhere for this kind of thing, that's how war works.

But an idiot fringe congressman spouting such things does not make a credible threat or say anything about the actual intentions about the country, just a good way for somebody to get attention or some points from one hardline group or another.

Post reply on HN