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Orb is a free and open source web desktop

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Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#131

Post by hliyan »

throwaway60707 wrote: post #128
JohnFen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load Wait, what? If it's taking most of a second for a page to load, then that's the problem, not that it isn't a SPA.

What can I do? Do you have a suggestion for a different HRIS? All of these that have all needed features are bloated OOP apps in PHP...

Amdhal's Law would suggest that much of the 750ms latency is likely attributed to I/O operations (mainly DB ops) and not CPU. Also, without knowing anything about your setup: upgrading to PHP 8 and/or enabling opcode cache may help. All that said, my original quibble was with development time, not run time overheads.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#132

Post by samtheprogram »

kristopolous wrote: post #71
samtheprogram wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Built in Flutter, I believe.

the underlying system has to be something - it can't be HTML all the way down to the CPU microcode. There was also the short-lived FirefoxOS, which is now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS and countless kiosks.

> the underlying system has to be something - it can't be HTML all the way down to the CPU microcode

Exactly what I was stating to GP (or implying, now that I read it over) — pretty sure Flutter is OpenGL or or etc, and not outputting to HTML or some DOM like React et. al. are doing.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#133

Post by happytiger »

hliyan wrote: post #131
throwaway60707 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can I do? Do you have a suggestion for a different HRIS? All of these that have all needed features are bloated OOP apps in PHP...

Amdhal's Law would suggest that much of the 750ms latency is likely attributed to I/O operations (mainly DB ops) and not CPU. Also, without knowing anything about your setup: upgrading to PHP 8 and/or enabling opcode cache may help. All that said, my original quibble was with development time, not run time overheads.

750ms transaction times and it’s “the language” that’s the problem? Not bloody likely.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#134

Post by happytiger »

throwaway60707 wrote: post #126
gunapologist99 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speed has nothing to do with the problem that you originally described. an AJAX call can take 750ms also.

There's no AJAX call in a SPA if all I did was close a detail side-pane to get back to the listing. The AJAX call goes on in background if I saved a modification and I can continue to use the app as it runs. And when I open a detail, at least I'm not watching the whole damn app reload and reconstruct itself from scratch for the 1000th time, and need to download just the data and not the whole bloated HTML mess.

https://laravel-livewire.com/

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#135

Post by DGCA »

hliyan wrote: post #12

I took a peek at the "Explorer" app code base. PHP + JS + jQuery, but surprisingly readable (but a lot of practices in there that are not exactly considered "best" today). Perhaps we have sunk too deep into the SPA/API rabbit hole that we can no longer appreciate simplicity. https://gitlab.com/hsleisink/orb/-/blob/master/public/apps/e... https://gitlab.com/hsleisink/orb/-/blob/master/public/apps/e...

I still identify with the “frontend developer” title, even though my skill set has grown beyond it. Best practices are framework dependent, the tooling one should choose is dependent on their problem space, and we do appreciate simplicity.

No one is forcing people to use React, Svelte, Vue, etc. The sentiment of wishing for a simpler time has never felt right to me, cause no one is policing what people use. If you feel like people are forcing you into frameworks, I’m sorry, and I feel like I have a piece of advice.

If you truly believe a framework isn’t worth it, tell your team why. You might be right, and you might be wrong.

I’ve worked at large and small companies; discussions about what technologies to use have always been welcome. I’ve advocated for and won when making a case for “simpler solutions,” when it makes sense.

All that said if you think using a framework framework === complexity for the sake of complexity, you’re wrong. OP I’m not saying you think this, but I have to imagine that it’s the sentiment of at least part of the folks who made this the top comment.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#136

Post by capableweb »

guggle wrote: post #123
capableweb wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "fuss" is not about the specific numbers of bandwidth but more the mindset of not using more resources than absolutely necessary. And yeah, my breed who seems to care about this seems to be scarcer and scarcer out there but I promise, we still do exists.

Funny how some people have this mindset only about jquery and not unecessary fonts, icons, image backgrounds, etc.

When have I argued that? Or are you putting other people's opinion and saying I hold them?

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#137

Post by NayamAmarshe »

kristopolous wrote: post #71
samtheprogram wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Built in Flutter, I believe.

the underlying system has to be something - it can't be HTML all the way down to the CPU microcode. There was also the short-lived FirefoxOS, which is now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS and countless kiosks.

There's also externOS, it's exactly what I'm talking about: https://www.tecmint.com/externos-nodejs-based-linux-distribu...

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#138

Post by James-Livesey »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #18

I wonder how things would have been if we had JavaScript based WMs and DEs. I'd have loved an HTML/CSS supported DE, imagine the possibilities! and seeing how performance of web-based DEs is amazing, I really hope we can get a Linux distro with a HTML/CSS/JS based DE.

This is what I've been working on with LiveG OS, whose desktop environment, gShell, is written in HTML/CSS/JS: https://liveg.tech/os

The OS is also designed to run on mobile devices, so there's some cross-platform consistency between the system on desktop and mobile devices.

It's currently designed to run web apps, but the hope is to also include support for typical Linux GTK and Qt apps (or any app that uses Xwindows) soon to aid daily driveability.

The current release can't do much yet, but we'll be releasing our next Alpha version in about a week or two which include a few more useful features on top of what's already available on our site!

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#139

Post by NayamAmarshe »

James-Livesey wrote: post #138
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #18

I wonder how things would have been if we had JavaScript based WMs and DEs. I'd have loved an HTML/CSS supported DE, imagine the possibilities! and seeing how performance of web-based DEs is amazing, I really hope we can get a Linux distro with a HTML/CSS/JS based DE.

This is what I've been working on with LiveG OS, whose desktop environment, gShell, is written in HTML/CSS/JS: https://liveg.tech/os The OS is also designed to run on mobile devices, so there's some cross-platform consistency between the system on desktop and mobile devices. It's currently designed to run web apps, but the hope is to also include support for typical Linux GTK and Qt apps (or any app that uses Xwindow…

Awesome! Do you have a Telegram channel or a waitlist? I'd love to join!
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