Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

abolish.social

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 145 posts

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#131

Post by majormajor »

mschuster91 wrote: post #114
majormajor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A halfway-competent operation management team would see that as a reason to make the hardware harder to repurpose, not easier. Big organized operations can figure shit out, but put some barriers in front of the script-kiddie/homeless-dude contingent. A me-too copycat startup like Spin who got kicked out of Seattle a year ago ( https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2022/05/13/city-announces-ne... ) doing it this way doesn't…

> A halfway-competent operation management team would see that as a reason to make the hardware harder to repurpose, not easier. Given that it's a routine sport in many cities, particularly those with bodies of water, to damage or destroy the scooters, it's imperative to make them as cheap as possible and as easy to repair as possible. Both conflict with stuff like custom boards or barriers to opening them up.

Are you getting this info from financial reports or such? Cause it directly contradicts all the first- or third-party reporting I've seen from the big players in the industry. As well as the hacker discussions around trying to repurpose newer Limes and such (another link in addition to the one I put in the other subthread: https://scootertalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30090&start=10 )

The biggest theft use I see locally these days of the modern Limes and Birds is using the batteries for charging shit at homeless encampments.

But there were a million copycat companies like Spin who launched with off the shelf stuff after Bird and Lime who seemed to copy the "light money on fire theft-wise" problems of off the shelf stuff.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#132

Post by arcticbull »

slim wrote: post #113
superdisk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem: We need to outsource the software to India. Solution: Put a way overpowered computer in the product so they can program it. Ridiculous problem with a ridiculous solution. Are they allergic to any level of correctness? Sometimes I'm ashamed to be in this industry.

you can outsource esp32 developement to india just fine. the fact that someone decides to use overpowered hardware so he can develop crapware is independent of where the crapware is developed

An ESP is a chip, not an SBC. So then you have to pick an off the shelf SBC from a different supplier which is either (a) hobby grade, see OP or (b) much more expensive or (c): you have to do your own electrical engineering, component selection, BOM, PCB layout, PCB manufacture, assembly, deal with a contract manufacturer - do EVT, DVT and PVT - ramp production, test/validate, package, stock and distribute the units. (c) is going to delay you 6-12 months.

We also don't know anything about the quality of the software running on those devices. I've seen some awful crimes against computers committed in embedded software - and I've seen some pretty well written software on more capable machines. And v.v. of course.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#133

Post by [deleted] »

sudosysgen wrote: post #74
chasd00 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about the Pi is, since it runs an actual Linux os, you can take garden variety web devs and have them write code for it. You don’t need any esoteric hardware devs to fiddle all day with bits and writing drivers before they even start on the actual use case. That alone makes the Pi super attractive for startups.

Yes, that's the problem. I don't want a vehicle I'm relying on for my safety to be programmed by web developers and running an non-RT OS. Even if it's just doing remote management stuff.

[deleted]

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#135

Post by tekeous »

The robot delivery units from Starship Robotics are also largely off the shelf components including a Raspberry Pi and 4G hotspot.

It’s cheaper to buy Pis and make your startup than it is to make something yourself, which is equal parts impressive and sad.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#136

Post by mschuster91 »

majormajor wrote: post #131
mschuster91 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A halfway-competent operation management team would see that as a reason to make the hardware harder to repurpose, not easier. Given that it's a routine sport in many cities, particularly those with bodies of water, to damage or destroy the scooters, it's imperative to make them as cheap as possible and as easy to repair as possible. Both conflict with stuff like custom boards or barriers to opening them up.

Are you getting this info from financial reports or such? Cause it directly contradicts all the first- or third-party reporting I've seen from the big players in the industry. As well as the hacker discussions around trying to repurpose newer Limes and such (another link in addition to the one I put in the other subthread: https://scootertalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30090&start=10 ) The biggest theft use I see loca…

> The biggest theft use I see locally these days of the modern Limes and Birds is using the batteries for charging shit at homeless encampments.

Okay, I'm German, so no idea about homeless encampments because we simply don't have these in large scale, but how does that even work? Like okay, you rip out the batteries, but then what? You'd still need some sort of voltage regulator just to power a device, and that hasn't even included recharging the batteries.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#137

Post by mytailorisrich »

paulgb wrote: post #34
post-it wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be shocked if there's a company in the world who would prioritize Joe Shmoe wanting to buy 1 widget over BigCorp wanting to buy 10 000. It's economics of scale.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a registered charity to promote computer science education, so if any company were to prioritize Joe Shmoe it would be them.

The foundation is a small part. The Pis are built and sold by a commercial company that even advertises Pis for industry use: https://www.raspberrypi.com/for-industry/

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#138

Post by majormajor »

mschuster91 wrote: post #136
majormajor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you getting this info from financial reports or such? Cause it directly contradicts all the first- or third-party reporting I've seen from the big players in the industry. As well as the hacker discussions around trying to repurpose newer Limes and such (another link in addition to the one I put in the other subthread: https://scootertalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30090&start=10 ) The biggest theft use I see loca…

> The biggest theft use I see locally these days of the modern Limes and Birds is using the batteries for charging shit at homeless encampments. Okay, I'm German, so no idea about homeless encampments because we simply don't have these in large scale, but how does that even work? Like okay, you rip out the batteries, but then what? You'd still need some sort of voltage regulator just to power a device, and that hasn'…

None of that's very complicated electronics. Homeless != stupid. Wire some shit up once and then free mobile power is free power. Either jack another battery out of another scooter and reuse your wiring, or do some further wiring to charge off a streetlight or something if you're YOLO.

But it's a lower-demand type of theft than "spend 30 bucks on alibaba and have a free scooter forever thanks to the off-the-shelf-nature of the first rental scooters" that people in the US market were going nuts with in 2018/19. It's a bit more wild west than Germany. ;)

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#139

Post by jorl17 »

superdisk wrote: post #51
notatoad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

developing for esp32 is way more difficult than developing for raspi. raspi lets you basically treat it like a normal computer, you can use standard python and sqlite and install whatever nonsense you want from pip and basically assume it will run whatever your laptop can. it means you can hire kids straight out of school, or outsource to india, and whoever you get can work on it without really any concern - it'll ru…

Problem: We need to outsource the software to India. Solution: Put a way overpowered computer in the product so they can program it. Ridiculous problem with a ridiculous solution. Are they allergic to any level of correctness? Sometimes I'm ashamed to be in this industry.

Why outsource to India?

Pick any random set of Software Engineers from any country. I guarantee you that you are more likely to find people who can develop fast on an RPi than on an ESP32.

Now if you're a startup needing to build very fast and iterate quickly, it's obvious you're going to use the RPi4. Then, once you've grown, you can make the system more efficient, port it, etc. It'll be a growing pain, but a sustained one. And without being completely immersed in ridiculous amounts of VC-funding (hopefully)

I'm the CTO of a company who helps startups go from the idea to the scale-up phase. We helped build a tiny startup to one of the most promising startups in europe using this idea. We're very proud of what we've achieved. Could we have built something with an ESP32? Sure, and we might have even made it in the same timeframe given the amazing team we have, but it was less risky to bet on the RPi than the ESP32.

In fact, the first iteration had an ESP32 and we were brought in because they needed to move faster and it was becoming hard to develop for and iterate at their pace. Again: perhaps we could have built the same with the ESP32, but it's a matter of risk analysis!

Sometimes I feel like people talk about these things in a kind of vacuum of perfection and utopia, outside of the real world. In the real world things get messy and move very fast. Supply-chain issues arise, hardware has to be swapped, people move cities and quit their jobs. Where we have excelled as a partner is in dealing with very very very fast change and using an ESP32 for that would have made things harder. Now instead of a dead product there's thousands of the thing we helped build out there, and growing. And we're finally moving away from the RPi4.

Technology is actually a very small part of what we do. Most of it is creating the logistic and the "system" around the technology to get everything to work. Sometimes, as engineers, we forget that.

Re: E-scooter startup Spin apparently uses RasPi 4s inside their scooters

#140

Post by sschueller »

paulcole wrote: post #26
Animats wrote: post #5

What, they weren't required to collect them up and dispose of them properly?

Nobody’s required to do anything, especially a company that’s likely to go out of business and be sold for scrap in the near future.

In Zürich Switzerland after the first bike startup failed and left all it's bikes littered around the city any new startup has to put down capital for the cleanup before they get any permit now.
Post reply on HN