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x86 is dead, long live x86

engineering.mercari.com

131–140 of 172 posts

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#131

I would just like to point out that that is not how the saying goes. When Queen Elizabeth died it would have been “the queen is dead, long live the king”, as the dead thing is the predecessor and the living thing is the one that follows it

>When Queen Elizabeth died it would have been “the queen is dead, long live the king”, as the dead thing is the predecessor and the living thing is the one that follows it

And if a freshly dead king is replaced by a new king, it's "the king is dead, long live the king".

The predecessor and the living thing doesn't have to be of the opposite sex, or use a different term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_king_is_dead,_long_live_th...!

It's a very famous idiom.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#132
x86 would be dead if ARM ISA offered like at least 20% perf boost or energy savings.

But since ISA doesn't imply perf. characteristics itself, then x86 will be alive.

The hard part in changing hardware's stuff is getting software to adjust.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#133

When I think about how long chips like the 6502 have still been in active use (almost 50 years now), it is hard to conceive of a world where there isn't a significant presence of x86 activity for the rest of my life. The majority of 'the market' may go elsewhere, but for a gazillion reasons, x86 will not be disappearing for quite a while. At this point it would honestly surprise me if we didn't at least have high qua…

Given the new 128-core AMD server parts are on-par with ARM in terms of power efficiency and capable of more raw compute, it may even grow a bit. I think there's lots of room for ARM, Risc-V and x86_64 in the future. There's reasons to support any of them over the others. And given how well developer tool are getting support across them all, it may actually grow a lot. I think the down side is a lot of the secondary…

> I think the down side is a lot of the secondary compute accelerators, such as what intel is pushing and what the various ARM and Risc-V implementations include in practice.

I’m curious why this is a downside. The current trends in computing is that we’re long past the point of single threaded compute. The first step of that was multi processor and multi core and that’ll continue with more and more dedicated and specialized computing sub-processors. Energy prices are more and more becoming a major determining factor as is the area needed for cooling. By having more separated subprocessors you get both efficiency and easier ability to cool the parts.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not arguing that Apple doesn't sell laptops, they're refuting that "Windows, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have [...] given the laptop market to Apple". Unless one thinks the laptop market only exists in the US, this idea simply can't match reality, not yet anyway.

If they are arguing that, don’t you think their anecdotal “proof” is silly? > I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either . >no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either. I don’t know anyone that uses WeChat. Wouldn’t that be a silly argument?

Not if the anecdote contradicts an equally unsubstantiated generalisation, honestly. If you're going to complain about the quality of the discussion, do it with both sides, not just the argument you side against.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#135

When I think about how long chips like the 6502 have still been in active use (almost 50 years now), it is hard to conceive of a world where there isn't a significant presence of x86 activity for the rest of my life. The majority of 'the market' may go elsewhere, but for a gazillion reasons, x86 will not be disappearing for quite a while. At this point it would honestly surprise me if we didn't at least have high qua…

Are 6502 chips still used? What's the application?

I don't know anything about physical 6502's but they've been embedded in FPGAs where you need a small MCU in a larger design. Same with Intel 8051's.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#136
post #86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to be that pedantic, we might as well just say that because Intel and AMD aren't living entities so they can't be "dead". Or we could just accept that the original meaning of the phrase has evolved and is flexible enough to be used in situations where it's not absolutely literal.

I just closed another post on HN because the top thread descended into some bullshit semantics pissing contest so I come here and see the same. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed an increase in arguing over the meaning of words on HN lately?

It's unironically one of the things I like about this site.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#137
post #77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tamagochis are running on 6502 compatible chips. Which makes me think it is used in other toys, too.

What are the top embedded usage chips and what is their typical niche?

I wouldn't know. I just watched a talk a couple of years back about reverse engineering tamagochis, and they turned out to run on some 6502 compatible chip made by a company that - IIRC - sells to toy makers mostly.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed that as well. It beggars belief that people are seriously arguing about applying a centuries-old foreign metaphors about kings to modern large corporations. That’s straight over Pedantic territory into the Obnoxious Contrarian wilderness. Sigh…

Sorry, but you've just noticed it? Wars about semantics have been standard fare on geekdom since the dawn of time, and on Hacker News since the dawn of Arc. What appears as "Obnoxious Contrarian wilderness" is good-old hacker "well, actually" pendanticness (with some sprinkling of on-the-spectrum focus on details and semantics).

> Sorry, but you've just noticed it?

Yes, I have noticed “an increase in arguing over the meaning of words on HN lately”. I also know how to discuss the meaning of words and how they form the context of a conversation, once taken together.

> Wars about semantics have been standard fare on geekdom since the dawn of time, and on Hacker News since the dawn of Arc.

Sure, and I enjoy very much some pedantry (and am not above doing my bit every now and then), but that’s not the point. If someone wants to have a heated discussion about how a centuries-old metaphor would apply to the kings of France but not to a multinational company, then sure, have at it, as long as you don’t derail otherwise useful threads. I will just opt out of spending my time that way and instead get some interesting pedantry.

I must admit I am not really sure what image you want to imply by “dawn of Arc”, though it does go a bit with the French king vibe. Would you care to explicit a little?

> What appears as "Obnoxious Contrarian wilderness" is good-old hacker "well, actually" pendanticness (with some sprinkling of on-the-spectrum focus on details and semantics).

Pedantry and semantics are fine, and indeed one of the reasons why I am here. But the point beyond that has to be knowledge and enlightenment, otherwise it’s just, yes, obnoxious. There is also a thin line between a good “well actually” and a nuisance (not even talking about bad faith trolling).

Please note that I did not address any of the people in question, because that would be stupid, rude, and counter-productive. I am happy if they have their arguments on their side. I was just replying to a fellow commenter that they were not alone with that feeling. There’s no need to be rude about it.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but you've just noticed it? Wars about semantics have been standard fare on geekdom since the dawn of time, and on Hacker News since the dawn of Arc. What appears as "Obnoxious Contrarian wilderness" is good-old hacker "well, actually" pendanticness (with some sprinkling of on-the-spectrum focus on details and semantics).

> Sorry, but you've just noticed it? Yes, I have noticed “an increase in arguing over the meaning of words on HN lately”. I also know how to discuss the meaning of words and how they form the context of a conversation, once taken together. > Wars about semantics have been standard fare on geekdom since the dawn of time, and on Hacker News since the dawn of Arc. Sure, and I enjoy very much some pedantry (and am not ab…

> I must admit I am not really sure what image you want to imply by “dawn of Arc”

Arc is a Lisp dialect invented by PG whose main notable use is that it is the implementation language for HN: the “dawn of Arc” is thus a flowery way of saying something like “the first concrete steps to the creation of HN”.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but you've just noticed it? Yes, I have noticed “an increase in arguing over the meaning of words on HN lately”. I also know how to discuss the meaning of words and how they form the context of a conversation, once taken together. > Wars about semantics have been standard fare on geekdom since the dawn of time, and on Hacker News since the dawn of Arc. Sure, and I enjoy very much some pedantry (and am not ab…

> I must admit I am not really sure what image you want to imply by “dawn of Arc” Arc is a Lisp dialect invented by PG whose main notable use is that it is the implementation language for HN: the “dawn of Arc” is thus a flowery way of saying something like “the first concrete steps to the creation of HN”.

Interesting, I did not know that. Thanks!
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