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FedNow Is Live

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#131

Post by pessimizer »

solardev wrote: post #23
delfinom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National IDs in the US are never coming because the evangelical base of the GOP literally oppose it for being the "mark of the beast". >Here we go. CBDCs are next, and also national Digital IDs No, this is a long term replacement for ACH, a function that the Federal Reserve was already carrying out.

We already use social security numbers for everything (insurance, credit, etc.). It's pretty much a national ID, just a shitty one.

The way they got SSNs through is by promising that it would be illegal to use them for identification. The only remnant of that is that it (still?) remains illegal to refuse services to people who refuse to give their social security numbers, although if you do it you'll break customer service.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#132

Post by karaterobot »

> “The FedNow Service is neither a form of currency nor a step toward eliminating any form of payment, including cash.”

What people are accusing them of is taking steps toward creating a digital dollar. This is their response, which is pretty mealy-mouthed if it's meant to address those accusations. A better way to express a denial would be "the Federal Reserve has no intention of creating a digital dollar and is not planning for nor working on that project," if indeed that is true.

Because if they DO create one in the near future, then this product SHOULD be designed as a step toward that. If they create a digital dollar and it uses any version of FedNow, then they're liars. If they create a digital dollar and it uses an entirely different product, they're incompetent.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#133

Post by fatfingerd »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #92
OGWhales wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My concern with digital payments is the elimination of cash. Having the ability to transfer value without it being monitored or blocked is an exceptionally useful property of paper money.

But you might buy things the government doesn’t want you to have. Real meat? Nope. Religious texts? Nope.

Which government is that? Even Russia values religious faith as a pillar for misinformation.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#134

Post by pessimizer »

kemotep wrote: post #104
seneca wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government already has the power to do this — just ask any trans person in the South Any citations on every trans person in the South being singled out for denial of services by the government? Because that sounds like inflammatory nonsense.

Banning gender affirming care effectively is singling out transgender people and denying them services[0]. Additionally there was a recent Supreme Court decision allowing businesses to discriminate against people[1]. Additionally in living memory, many businesses and government services were segregated by race. In some cases some races were denied access to services or those services were severely underfunded. The le…

> Banning gender affirming care effectively is singling out transgender people

For children. Or for state funding, but the state doesn't pay for the vast majority of plastic surgery.

> Additionally in living memory, many businesses and government services were segregated by race.

Race doesn't need affirming medical care, or identification to single out. Also, businesses and government services weren't abstractly segregated by race, they were specifically discriminatory toward black people.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#135

Post by shwaj »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #92
OGWhales wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My concern with digital payments is the elimination of cash. Having the ability to transfer value without it being monitored or blocked is an exceptionally useful property of paper money.

But you might buy things the government doesn’t want you to have. Real meat? Nope. Religious texts? Nope.

Or participate in activities the government doesn’t want you to participate in. Canadian trucker protest? Nope.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#136

Post by DANmode »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #110
EGreg wrote: post #5

Here we go. CBDCs are next, and also national Digital IDs. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwRSzNTp2ko Real ID + needing it to browse anything on the Internet: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-en... From what I see people on HN writing, by and large they downplay the risks of these as well as AI. Or alternately seem to suggest that CBDCs and national IDs are not coming, and that it’s a conspira…

> CBDCs are next Nobody has seriously discussed a CBDC for months in the U.S. FedNow is the American financial system catching up to the 1990s. It has nothing to do with crypto beyond the cursory.

FedNow is the system that will give the USD some or all of the troublesome properties of a CBDC.

I can't begin to parse your comment.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#137

Post by constantcrying »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #98
constantcrying wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It makes me question why we allow government to be in charge of our money This isn't true. Private currencies exist(ed) and are afaik still legal. The reason we put governments in charge of our money is that up until about a decade ago it was either the government or a corporation as a decentralizes currency was not really implementable. Do you want to get paid in amazon coins only redeemable on amazon? No, you do n…

> This isn't true. Private currencies exist(ed) and are afaik still legal. For most of my life, those were ancient history or theoretical. Then in 2009, something changed. And ever since then, I've seen nothing less than the most zealous propaganda campaign to undermine those... it's bizarre to watch it unfold. I keep side-eyeing everyone, wondering if I'm the only one that sees it. Sure, it doesn't help that the cry…

>Saying that it's "legal" doesn't change the fact that if someone were to come up with a private currency, gigantic forces, government and not, would be arrayed against them to put an end to it.

Thousands of private currencies exist right now.

Nobody would care about your currency, since it is useless, and as such worthless. A centralized currency is an enormous social asset. Nobody wants private currencies.

>who could be trusted to do it in a way that doesn't favor some at the expense of others?

Just try to imagine a currency controlled by amazon. Do you think they won't do some hyperinflation making you poor once a decade?

The controller of a currency has enormous power. If the government can't handle it nobody can.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#138

Post by drivebyhooting »

digging wrote: post #125
drivebyhooting wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal doesn’t have a military and doesn’t extract taxes from you though.

The idea that the USD you earn in a wage is "yours" and the government has no right to tax it makes no sense to me. They printed the money. Your wage wouldn't exist without the government making the modern economy possible (in more ways than just printing it). Many of our jobs wouldn't even exist without the government's participation in the economy.

Holy strawman Batman.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#139

Post by DANmode »

digging wrote: post #126
rootusrootus wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Lightly] amusing is thinking there is a singular attitude in the US towards national IDs. And we already have several forms of national ID anyway.

Comically, the primary national ID we use is one specifically designed not to be a national ID. The secondary "national" IDs most of us use are simply state IDs or driver's licenses. They're not in a federal database, but I don't understand how that's meaningfully different. It's still a big government tracking system.

It was, but curiously, they've removed the related verbiage from new issuances.

They used to carry a disclaimer: FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES • NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION

Re: FedNow Is Live

#140

Post by Animats »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #115
rvz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India already has the Unified Payments Interface (UPI) [0]. Additionally, I think fears of this turning into a CBDC are overblown. Yet, India is already working on E-RUPI [0] which is a CBDC on top of UPI by the Reserve Bank of India, also shown in the same Wikipedia link you just used. Eventually, FedNow will just be the rails for a US dollar CBDC. The next time a protest happens in India after their government do…

> Eventually, FedNow will just be the rails for a US dollar CBDC This is unfounded. FedNow is a faster classical payment rail. CBDCs involve the central bank taking on a customer-facing role. The Fed has no desire, nor frankly basis in law, to do that. The only reason the two are linked is crypto (a) prompted the first serious discussion about American payments modernization and (b) promoters are using it as a thread…

The central bank digital currency concept has little to do with FedNow. It's denominated in dollars, and is cleared by all parties keeping ledgers which are compared if they differ. But between the crypto people and some right-wing conspiracy mongers, the two are being connected in some social media.
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