We know that Apple is working on using their own map technology based on some of their acquisitions. Is it possible that OSM is just a stop-gap until their own maps are ready to go? Perhaps they didn't want to enter into another licensing agreement with Google if they're going to be ready to switch to their own solution later this year with iOS 6?
Well these are already their maps. They have styled them, hosting them etc. They are just using the raw underlying OSM data. You have to get data from somewhere, and OSM is probably one of the best sources of data.
OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
131–140 of 160 posts
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#132"It’s also missing the necessary credit to OpenStreetMap’s contributors; we look forward to working with Apple to get that on there."
While I think it's quite messed up that a company as rich as Apple can't abide putting credits for people who have put some really good work in (I've even made small updates to OSM in my time) I do think that this is a very classy move by the OSM people, no ranting blog post or 'Apple stole our stuff', welcoming people presents a much better image of the project.
April 2010 is around when they would have started working on the maps back-end. Attribution would have meant dev releases would have indicated Apple using non-Google Maps data. They probably wanted to avoid that.
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does Apple legally have to give credit? I thought facts couldn't be copyrighted (from the MLB vs fantasy baseball case - http://www.patentarcade.com/2007/11/case-cbc-v-major-league-... ) and wouldn't map data qualify as facts?
IANAL but from what I understand "facts" can't be copyrighted, but a collection of facts can be. eg. A business' address/phone number can't be copyrighted on its own, but a specific collection of them into a Yellow Pages can be.
"...the selection or arrangement of data only results in a protected compilation if the end result qualifies as an original intellectual creation."
(This actually saved me in university when the school wanted to charge me with copyright violation after I scraped their job database to make it easier to work with.)
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL but from what I understand "facts" can't be copyrighted, but a collection of facts can be. eg. A business' address/phone number can't be copyrighted on its own, but a specific collection of them into a Yellow Pages can be.
This isn't true in Canada. http://www.lmlaw.ca/copyright_raw_data.pdf "...the selection or arrangement of data only results in a protected compilation if the end result qualifies as an original intellectual creation." (This actually saved me in university when the school wanted to charge me with copyright violation after I scraped their job database to make it easier to work with.)
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I think it's quite messed up that a company as rich as Apple can't abide putting credits for people who have put some really good work in (I've even made small updates to OSM in my time) I do think that this is a very classy move by the OSM people, no ranting blog post or 'Apple stole our stuff', welcoming people presents a much better image of the project.
It was for stealth. This does not absolve them of their legal and ethical responsibility to give credit where it's due, but it explains their actions above "they're dicks". April 2010 is around when they would have started working on the maps back-end. Attribution would have meant dev releases would have indicated Apple using non-Google Maps data. They probably wanted to avoid that.
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my short time playing with openstreetmap I learned that openstreetmap is more of a spec/aggregate/foundation entity that seems to be grouping "open street mapping" efforts under their banner. It's more of a spec than a single data source. I learned this when I had to go elsewhere (government sites and colleges) to find "open" street mapping data. It's was a little confusing to say the least and I still may be misu…
Really? Isn't there at least a "main" source of map data that comes from openstreetmap.org? Mapquest is also experimenting with them (gotta stay relevant somehow right?), it seems to contain contributions I've made. (open.mapquest.com)
Here's the dump: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/Planet.osm
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#137I wonder if this is a temporary quick and dirty solution from Apple, pending a full-scale switch to their own maps in iOS 6.0.
"Their own maps"? These are their maps. They are rendering them, they are hosting them. If you mean "their own map data", then that would be silly (& expensive) for Apple to either (a) drive a car around everywhere like Google Street View or (b) licence some third party mapping company. OSM is a good solution for Apple here.
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn't true in Canada. http://www.lmlaw.ca/copyright_raw_data.pdf "...the selection or arrangement of data only results in a protected compilation if the end result qualifies as an original intellectual creation." (This actually saved me in university when the school wanted to charge me with copyright violation after I scraped their job database to make it easier to work with.)
storytime! I want to hear more
I got fed up with trying to use it, so I looked at the HTML and decided that it was easy enough to parse. I made the deliberate decision to link to the original job descriptions so that you'd still have to log in to find any real information about the jobs. However, a listing of {employer,job title,location} seemed harmless enough.
I wrote it such that it ran once and spat out a static HTML file so that it wouldn't be constantly accessing the original server. Then I hosted it on my university account and told people about it via Twitter. I had no intention of hiding it; I wanted it to help people! Also, I posted the scraping script (which required a university account to login before it could run) on GitHub for others to use or improve. Y'know.
A few days later, my account had been disabled! When I went to see the people in charge, they told me that I was violating their copyright and since I has posted my code to scrape, they considered me to be a malicious hacker. They also said that I could have single-handedly taken down the co-op program at the university.
For my formal response, I learned some obscure details about Canadian copyright law (like what I posted in the grandparent), and took the opportunity to educate the administrators on hacker culture (with the help of Eric Raymond). I also made sure to explain the implications of my script (runs only once, requires a login, links to the actual copyrighted works). Oh, and I used some of my connections with IT security and professors as character reference.
In the end, they decided to punish me for reproducing their data (which the login screen technically prohibits, but it's unrealistic- having the page in memory is a reproduction!) by making me take a business ethics course, which was actually a fun and interesting course. No criminal charges, no expulsion/suspension. I figured it wasn't too bad, though I would have appreciated an apology for essentially calling me a terrorist. ;)
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was for stealth. This does not absolve them of their legal and ethical responsibility to give credit where it's due, but it explains their actions above "they're dicks". April 2010 is around when they would have started working on the maps back-end. Attribution would have meant dev releases would have indicated Apple using non-Google Maps data. They probably wanted to avoid that.
And that makes it OK how?
Some of the comments were implying that Apple didn't give credit because they have a culture that is insolent. I was just trying to give context to the decision.
Re: OpenStreetMap: Welcome Apple
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the behaviour of Steve Jobs over the years, that attitude is probably embedded in the culture.
If Steve Jobs were still alive, he'd probably be pledging to deplete every last dollar of Apple's billions to run this stolen product into the ground. Who does OpenStreetMap think they are, anyway? ;)
Do the down-mods represent people operating in good faith thinking I'm being mean-spirited, rude, and damaging the conversation? Or are they Apple fanboys upset by a little uncomfortable teasing at their expense? I can only speculate. :P