Live data from Hacker News

Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

techcrunch.com

131–140 of 169 posts

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#131
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for people whos jobs are being displaced faster than they can retrain Where is this mass displacement of which you speak? Which companies are firing en masse and replacing with AI?

Content writing and concept artists come to mind, I've heard commercial art is getting decimated. The trucking industry is dumping tons of $$$ into automated AI trucking. Tech companies are experimenting with drone delivery instead of hiring drivers. Rideshares experimenting with self-driving taxis. The list goes on. More locally, the local McDonalds recently remodeled, reducing the customer counter to something like…

> Content writing and concept artists come to mind, I've heard commercial art is getting decimated.

Who? Be specific. This displacement is happening rapidly, it should be easy to point out.

> The trucking industry is dumping tons of $$$ into automated AI trucking. Tech companies are experimenting with drone delivery instead of hiring drivers. Rideshares experimenting with self-driving taxis. The list goes on.

How many truck drivers have been laid off from this technology which hasn't been deployed widely / left the experimentation phase?

> she uses ChatGPT to generate marketing copy instead of hiring content writers.

So far the only real competition you've mentioned. And yeah, language models are good at writing low value language. I have yet to hear about mass unemployment of content writers however. These are people who will upskill/shift into other marketing roles easily.

> Someone else I know uses AI to SEOize very technical text to something search engines like at like 10x the rate he used to do by hand.

And this is a bad thing?

> As a solo and formerly senior SWE, ChatGPT is like having a junior developer on call to do my research and get me preliminary results.

You say this as if companies will stop hiring juniors. They won't. The world will simply write more code with more productive people.

> You're sticking your head in your sand if you think it isn't coming.

The same has been said during every technological shift. Mechanization will result in mass unemployment of laborers. Email will result in mass unemployment of mail carriers. Through many cycles of technology, the human race has never allowed slack in the workforce to go unused for very long. We could have stopped at the steam engine and accepted the quality of life we had, instead of repurposing displaced workers and marching forward. This won't change until we have true AGI which we are nowhere near.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#132
post #60
post #28

“AI” eating itself is the best outcome for everyone. It’s a mass energy balance. The inputs equal the outputs; garbage in, garbage out.

Why would you not root for AI? Its potential to improve humanity is huge even if there are potential bad sides. Some People bunching crypto with AI on the usefulness scale is quite ridiculous

> Its potential to improve humanity

Considering the current economic system and state of social safety nets, I have to disagree with you. I bet the widespread adoption of ML models will only increase the Gini coefficient by doing to knowledge-workers what automation did to factory workers. The middle-class will be hollowed out.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#133
post #64
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you not root for AI? Its potential to improve humanity is huge even if there are potential bad sides. Some People bunching crypto with AI on the usefulness scale is quite ridiculous

For the current crop of AI at least, the upside will almost entirely be captured by a handful of rich elites who will gain even more leverage over workers. Virtually no business owner pays someone well for any reason other than they have to in order to make more money themselves. If LLMs don't flame out it will be like the dawn of offshoring except wider scale and without the upside of poor people in other countries…

[dead]

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#134
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surreal that even when it comes to AI we still fundamentally rely on underpaid labor.

We do that with natural intelligence too: in most countries teachers are underpaid.

"in most countries teachers are underpaid."

Based on the average level of competency I see (There are definitely exceptions), I would disagree...

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say more on this (value and how it’s extracted)?

If you are doing something that has inherent value — extracting gold from a mine, performing music, working a factory line — you are the top of funnel for value creation. Unfortunately for you, the only way for society to run is to have your would-be profits extracted to the maximum extent by other parties. Therefore the rich are the ones who actually don’t tend to produce as much and those who do are taken advantage…

> If you are doing something that has inherent value — extracting gold from a mine, performing music, working a factory line — you are the top of funnel for value creation.

The standard "how come patrons at a bar pay $10 for a drink but I only make $15 / hour when I serve twenty drinks an hour" argument.

The answer of course is because you didn't create the bar, you didn't secure all the necessary supplies and amenities to run it and ultimately you're not liable for what happens to it. In essence if the bar loses money each month you're still owed a paycheck.

And ultimately that's why raw materials and content DON'T have inherent value (e.g. dug up gold sitting in a mine shaft, the best song ever buried in your notebook).

What they have is POTENTIAL value if the infrastructure exists to get them processed and to the locations where people want them and if people are willing to put skin in the game to bet it will pay off.

And that need for infrastructure is the reason that argument always falls apart.

Co-opts are about the best feasible answer we have now, but it always seems to be the case that suddenly people have far more capitalistic notions about running a business when THEY become the majority risk holder for a new venture.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surreal that even when it comes to AI we still fundamentally rely on underpaid labor.

It's not underpaid. The people are willing to work for that money.

By this logic nobody can ever be underpaid lol

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#137
post #31

It could be detected like so: 1. Give a sample of mechanical turk workers the same data to classify without telling them 2. Once submitted, look carefully at the ones they get wrong 3. If the turk worker gets similar ones wrong to other turk workers, they're probably not cheating 4. If the turk worker is frequently wrong on questions other turk workers all got right (e.g. if 99.9% of other workers got it right) then…

> 3. If the turk worker gets similar ones wrong to other turk workers, they're probably not cheating

Per a comment above, that for a long time now they've been sharing scripts to get the same answer so they can get paid, this indicates cheating.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#138
post #60
post #28

“AI” eating itself is the best outcome for everyone. It’s a mass energy balance. The inputs equal the outputs; garbage in, garbage out.

Why would you not root for AI? Its potential to improve humanity is huge even if there are potential bad sides. Some People bunching crypto with AI on the usefulness scale is quite ridiculous

I've seen no evidence that "humanity" is going to be improved. I've seen lots of evidence of the gradual enshittification of everything and a few people getting really rich.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#140
post #67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the current crop of AI at least, the upside will almost entirely be captured by a handful of rich elites who will gain even more leverage over workers. Virtually no business owner pays someone well for any reason other than they have to in order to make more money themselves. If LLMs don't flame out it will be like the dawn of offshoring except wider scale and without the upside of poor people in other countries…

This is technology in general though. Technology first benefits the rich and causes people to lose their jobs, but then in the next generation, people get different jobs and everyone’s life is better. Technology is a double edge sword in every way.

I think it's too broad to classify all technology this way since their are stark differences between various tools.

Smart phones improved billions of lives and displaced a relatively small number of jobs. Global shipping routes decimated hundreds of towns and cities, many of which still haven't recovered decades later, with 90% of the benefits going to 1% of the population.

There are massive ranges possible on the winner and loser sides of any new technology equation. I'd argue that widespread AI will cause broad harm and very concentrated gains, which I think will be very bad for society on the whole.

Post reply on HN