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GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

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Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#131

Post by gameman144 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #106
bragr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a part of the US where "guys" is used as a gender neutral collective noun. My mom and grandma would call out "guys, dinner is ready!" to the whole family to call us to the table for example. So it's definitely whiplash inducing for the same group of people preaching inclusion and tolerance, and how we need to accept regional and racial dialects in the workplace, to then turn around and implement slackbots th…

I'll buy this when I hear a straight man talk about the guys he's dated. A thing that I have still never once observed.

There are lots of languages where the gender-neutral term and one of the gendered terms are the same. Consider the Spanish "ellos", meaning either "the masculine group" or "the masculine and feminine group". The word "ellas" denotes a feminine-only group.

It seems very reasonable that "guys" could function similarly in English. Moreover, I might not say "the guys I've dated" as a straight man, but if all the women I've ever dated were talking together in a room, I wouldn't bat an eye asking "what are you guys all doing?".

Similarly, I wouldn't say "all the folks I've dated", but I might say "good evening, folks" -- the word is a misfit solely because of the idioms and context, not because the word is inherently communicating something else.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#132

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

usui wrote: post #18
gorjusborg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps now the GCC project can step out of obscurity into the big leagues. This has to be parody or trolling, right?

Obviously

This is year of our lord 2023. It is veritably impossible to tell one from the other.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#133

Post by zeckalpha »

theepauk wrote: post #79

The only effect of a Code of Conduct I have ever personally witnessed was that people were being bullied for greeting others. The greeting they used was "hey guys", and instead of recognizing that language is fluid and different to different people they tried to impose their linguistic views on others. The people who encouraged this behavior were people on the Code of Conduct committee and at the top of the project's…

HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#134

Post by Verdex »

gorjusborg wrote: post #23
capableweb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that GCC is basically a super obscure project with near-zero users and no previous history, it sounds pretty accurate to me. I mean, the project could disappear overnight and no one would notice.

Ah, so trolls travel in packs!

And that's when the attack comes-- not from the front, but from the side, from the other two trolls you didn't even know were there.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#135

Post by beej71 »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #121
theepauk wrote: post #79

The only effect of a Code of Conduct I have ever personally witnessed was that people were being bullied for greeting others. The greeting they used was "hey guys", and instead of recognizing that language is fluid and different to different people they tried to impose their linguistic views on others. The people who encouraged this behavior were people on the Code of Conduct committee and at the top of the project's…

I personally never contribute to an OSS that has a CoC, and if I find my organization is using OSS that has a CoC I actively work to remove it and ban my employees from contributing to it. CoC's are poison, and if your project has a "Code of Conduct committee" it is dead to me. I fully admit this hasn't been possible for everything, but I'm making great progress

Does your organization have a code of conduct itself?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#136

Post by Cthulhu_ »

VancouverMan wrote: post #100
Akronymus wrote: post #32

Overall it seems like a pretty decent CoC. Altough, I am REALLY not a fan of this line: "In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to participate within them." I fear that that stipulation will be used to try and kick out people for holding "bad" opinions outside of the project. Like what was tried with Elia Schito.

Enforcement of this code of conduct would seem to inherently put the enforcers in violation of the Code. The Code states, " Harassment and other exclusionary behavior aren't acceptable. " Yet, targeting specific individuals with exclusion seems to be the main method of enforcement. As you indicated, the linked-to page recommends exclusion be used: " In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect…

> The Code states, "Harassment and other exclusionary behavior aren't acceptable." > > Yet, targeting specific individuals with exclusion seems to be the main method of enforcement.

That's not the gotcha you think it is; enforcers get higher privileges to enforce. Cops have the authority to carry a gun and kill people; the army has the authority to carry and use guns that civilians don't.

"Take some time off" is a more friendly alternative to "you are unwanted / banned"; the former is trying to help them, the latter is excluding them.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#137

Post by Cthulhu_ »

asylteltine wrote: post #74
commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

Me too. I wish big projects just told those people to shut up

Which people?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#138

Post by Volundr »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #114
GunnarSturla wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this example counters the gender neutrality of "guys". Have you ever observed a straight man talk about the people he's dated?

Yes.

It's an interesting bit of context. I also grew up with guys as a generic plural, but it's not really generic, rather it's a mixed group plural. It would feel just as natural to say "the people I date", as "the women I date", but never "the guys I date.

Even that's a weak rule though. For example if a girls soccer team performed really well you might hear someone say "those guys really gave it their all today" (though I'd say this usage is mostly dead, I don't think I've heard it this way in a long time), but never "THE guys really gave it their all today".

I'm sure some linguists have studied this and have a term for this kind of thing.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#139

Post by Benanov »

LtWorf wrote: post #87

Possibly a big mistake to make this post, but I've written my own code of conduct template, which I use on my projects (mostly since snyk, github and similar scanners rank you down if you don't have it). https://github.com/ltworf/international_code_of_conduct/blob...

Applause for "people who solely make code of conduct complaints are not contributors"

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#140

Post by Cthulhu_ »

commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

It seems you know a lot about what the silent majority wants, given they're apparently silent.

What would you replace it with? And what is the stuff being debated? I thought a code of conduct (or any form of "rules") was to prevent debates, avoid ambiguity, and clearly outline what is and isn't allowed in a community. (or outside one, which I do have a problem with. One of the rules of my forums, alongside an all-encompassing "don't be a dick", is a rule saying you shouldn't take drama from other sites to ours.)

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