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‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#131

Post by no_wizard »

norwalkbear wrote: post #111
no_wizard wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, look at the massive cross cultural success of the Last Of Us on HBO. My SO never played the games, nor heard of them, yet loved the show quite dearly, saying multiple times to anyone who would listen that its one of the best TV shows of all time she's ever seen, and it takes alot to get that kind of praise from her.

I don't know anyone under 35 who likes that show

Anecdotal evidence:

Myself and my SO are both under 35. Most of our friends like the show, and they range from 26-41. I know one of my best friends, who's cousins kids watched the show intently, all between 16-20, as he told me.

It was also a weekly discussion point in our friend groups, it was fairly actively engaged.

It was also a gangbuster for ratings[0] and is number 6 on the Nielsen streaming stats[1] with a staggering 837 Million Minutes watched in a fairly short period of time. Willing to bet you don't really "get there" without a healthy amount of people under 35 watching this show.

[0]: https://gizmodo.com/last-of-us-finale-hbo-max-pedro-pascal-h...

[1]: https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-nielsen-stre...

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#132

Post by plorkyeran »

the_doctah wrote: post #125
Timon3 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they had one marketing executive making the decisions, who was subsequently thrown under the bus What did I write that you think you're disagreeing with here? I didn't specify the amount of marketing executives who made the decision, so what are you trying to say I should get my facts straight on?

>I'm sure they made a risk analysis - and if you look at other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry, you'll see that it's more bad luck than anything else that the conserviative media machine focused so much on them. You're throwing around ridiculous speculation.

You think that it is ridiculous speculation to say that a large company did something with the goal of making money and it just didn't work out how they expected it to?

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#133

Post by soderfoo »

theptip wrote: post #101
it_citizen wrote: post #57

I am going to lose some karma over that comment: As someone who has not watched star wars before being adult but is pretty fond of fantasy and sci-fi, I am wondering if the simplest explanation for the constant disappointments is that the universe and source material are not that great in the first place. Is it possible that in 2023, a good chunk of the love for star war movies is due to fond childhood/90's memories…

I think it’s the exact opposite. The universe is one of the most compelling around. There is so much fiction (cannon and non-canon), and there was even a pen&paper RPG back in the day that was great fun. There is an enduring love for the universe because it’s a great tapestry for many types of story. I do agree there is a lot of rose-tinted fondness for the movies; they don’t hold up well IMO. The problem for new blo…

The Andor series is also well written and produced.

Perhaps the franchise can benefit by looking for writing talent outside of Hollywood.

Someone like Dan Abnett who has done an amazing job in the Warhammer 40k universe may bring new and compelling narratives to life.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#134

Post by slowmovintarget »

pneill wrote: post #46
cma wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Stan Lee push for lots of progressive change, often through his work?

To some extend that's true, but it was always in service of the story. What's happening at Disney is just the opposite - they're randomly inserting ideological stuff which has no relation to the story or they're contorting stories in support of an ideological narrative. And I don't care what your politics are, but when you insert politics into a story, your gonna alienate a major part of your audience OR you're going…

Yes. In many cases, it is the ideology that forces the bad story.

In the last two movies, all the men had to fail, the ideological bent to the story required it. That's why we got Luke as a failure, Han Solo as a failure (he couldn't redeem his son, only Rey could through the power of ambiguity), and Finn as a failure.

Imagine if Finn had succeeded in his sacrifice. How powerful would that moment have been?

Instead the story we get is one where morality is an old fashioned idea. Hard work and merit (Jedi training) are "the old rules that are holding you back." We get the whole "there's no good and evil, there's just power." All of which fly in the face of the original world of Star Wars. Patience, self-control, and practice were virtues. Anger, impulsiveness, and fear led to hatred, evil, and suffering -- the Dark Side.

Rey can't be trained, because it would mean a man was training her. Leia can just develop Force powers on her own, because otherwise, she would have had to learn them from a man. Poe Dameron can't have a proper perspective on the battle or be trusted with any plans because the point of his character must be "toxic masculinity."

It made the stories of these movies suck. Contrast that with how Andor and The Mandalorian deliver female characters that are amazing. Leia is a true badass... as she was in the original movies, without the Force. Bo Katan's character goes through a deep understanding of what it really means to lead her people, and earns it. Strong women, that don't require a man to fail, in order to be strong on their own.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#135

Post by the_doctah »

plorkyeran wrote: post #132
the_doctah wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sure they made a risk analysis - and if you look at other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry, you'll see that it's more bad luck than anything else that the conserviative media machine focused so much on them. You're throwing around ridiculous speculation.

You think that it is ridiculous speculation to say that a large company did something with the goal of making money and it just didn't work out how they expected it to?

Several times in a row over multiple years? Yeah.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#136

Post by the_doctah »

Timon3 wrote: post #127
the_doctah wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sure they made a risk analysis - and if you look at other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry, you'll see that it's more bad luck than anything else that the conserviative media machine focused so much on them. You're throwing around ridiculous speculation.

Well, there definitely are other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry. So what is the ridiculous speculation? That they made a risk analysis?

You're lacking examples

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#137

Post by bluedevil2k »

dogma1138 wrote: post #108
bluedevil2k wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare those numbers to Marvel and you’ll see what a wasted opportunity they created.

I think you’re overestimating how much money reach marvel flick brought in there were huge but also many that didn’t break 1B WW box office revenue. The big difference between Marvel and SW is that Disney was churning out far more Marvel films especially in Phase 2 and 3 https://m.imdb.com/list/ls040671689/

MCU movies have made $29.1B for Disney (revenue). That’s a lot in my book.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#138

Post by the_doctah »

wnevets wrote: post #116
the_doctah wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think diversity is progressive? Also, yes of course I consider X-23 to be a gender swapped Wolverine.

Not only is "diversity" not new for Marvel but X-23 was created prior to the Disney purchase.

One data point does not make a trend. Post-Disney is when the trend started. Also a downward trend... of sales.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#139

Post by intalentive »

adsfgiodsnrio wrote: post #121
intalentive wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alignment with current social issues happens based on calculations of profit, not based on sincere ideological commitment. Yeah, Bud Light was just “calculating profit” when it alienated its customer base.

The customer base was alienated because Bud Light made one (1) custom can of beer. Not one kind of custom can, literally only one can. Strangely, Bud Light has made special cans for pride month for years now and no one much cared. Strangely, people are boycotting Bud Light specifically and Anheuser-Busch is largely ignored. Strangely, major beer companies have had much more prominent partnerships with trans people wi…

The explanation is that Bud Light is viscerally associated with Dylan Mulvaney, who shot videos promoting the custom can. Bud Light's masculine, blue collar customer base does not want to be associated with Dylan Mulvaney. However, they are not sophisticated enough to extend the association to AB-InBev's other products. It's not hard to understand.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#140

Post by Timon3 »

the_doctah wrote: post #136
Timon3 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there definitely are other transgender influencers paid by other companies who were spared this moral outcry. So what is the ridiculous speculation? That they made a risk analysis?

You're lacking examples

This is the first time you're asking for examples. Given both your way of asking and your previous messages I'm neither interested in continuing this "discussion" with short and snippy responses, nor do I feel safe directing you to any individuals.
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