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The myth of the eight-hour sleep

bbc.co.uk

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Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#131

Post by mmwako »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #124
mmwako wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far from being an expert, but I learned this type of meditation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation from a guy my mother hired to teach all my family. There are many different meditations and practices, and I've actually never read a book about just meditation but I recommend books by Osho and Deepak Chopra (just google'em) to have insight on Indian practices and philosophy. I would recommend t…

> as cliché as it sounds, if you are looking for it, the appropriate practice will come to you Yeah. Keep looking for the right career / hobby / spiritual path / etc., and it will likely come to you. Provided you are sincere and are actually looking. I've a different bias, myself, but to each his own. The various buddhist techniques also seem well suited for the western skeptics, since they typically don't require ad…

Haha I never heard anyone compare Zen to Python. Point granted, anyways.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#132

Post by RobAtticus »

jfoldi wrote: post #94
VonLipwig wrote: post #42

I am really into 'do what works for you'. You may find that that sleeping in two 4 hour blocks changes your life. You feel alive! Alternatively you may find yourself more tired. Personally I like sleeping 8-9 hours a night. I find myself fairly alert a few minutes after I wake up and I can start my day. It certainly doesn't feel 'unnatural' to me. I am also a big fan of sleeping when other people sleep so I can enjoy…

You don't feel like you over slept after 9 hours of sleep? Either way I have to agree with doing what works for you. I always made an attempt to sleep a full 8 hours and failed. I get by on 4-5 hours of sleep a night and feel fine!

I feel similarly to the OP, in that I need usually more than the 8 hours recommended. It sometimes seems people are critical when I tell them I feel fully refreshed only after 9+ hours of sleep, usually implying that I'm just lazy. Like most things in life, a person's optimal amount of sleep varies. Some people can make do on 5-6, whereas some need 9 or more. I'm personally toward the 9+ side. Definitely a "what works for you" thing.

As for segmented sleep, I'm not sure I could ever do that. If I even nap for like 30-60 minutes after 7pm, the chances of me falling asleep by midnight are pretty much nil. I'd be screwed if I tried to sleep from 8-12 and then again at 2-3am.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#133

Post by vacri »

ars wrote: post #126
Xurinos wrote: post #29

There is only one study in this article, and it involves how a group of people adapted to a 14-hour sleep pattern. Other than that, there are no studies of importance here, nothing that confirms concretely that this kind of segmented sleep is effective for humans. It is based on historical hearsay but cannot make a prescriptive judgment. The evidence purely anecdotal. Please be careful in reading things like this tha…

> Please be careful in reading You should take your own advice. Bi-Modal sleep has a lot more evidence than just that, and the article includes some from historians, which I guess you missed. This sleep pattern is well accepted, and has been known for decades. Not sure why they are writing an article about it now, except maybe the author heard about it and decided it would make an interesting article.

So quote them. Xurinos is rightly pointing out the lack of referencing.

By the way, I worked in sleep medicine, first as a medical tech, and then in technical support for the medical equipment. I never came across the idea that split sleep sessions was right or healthy, and never heard the sleep physicians or clinical specialists mention such a thing. It is far from "well accepted and known for decades", at least up until I left the industry in 2009 (though I spent less time with the specialists from about 2006).

Xurinos is presenting the correct scientific position; you are presenting the antithesis of science: "Yeah, you're wrong, everyone knows it and has always known it, I'm sure there's some research somewhere".

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#134

Post by andycroll »

giulivo wrote: post #95
Xurinos wrote: post #29

There is only one study in this article, and it involves how a group of people adapted to a 14-hour sleep pattern. Other than that, there are no studies of importance here, nothing that confirms concretely that this kind of segmented sleep is effective for humans. It is based on historical hearsay but cannot make a prescriptive judgment. The evidence purely anecdotal. Please be careful in reading things like this tha…

I'm going to say something not so geeky but I think babies also sleep in segments and for shorter periods. We mainly adapt their "natural" habits to the society we're living. Is it for the better or not, I don't know.

They do, however that is as much to do with the need for frequent feeding given their tiny stomachs!

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#135

Post by chollida1 »

surfmike wrote: post #118
chollida1 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, in that case I don't know, but I will ask. Their latest research indicates that a full sleep cycle lasts approximately 4 hours, which does fly in the face of the older sleep data. it's entirely possible that their hypothesis will turn out to be incorrect.

That's really interesting, do they have that published anywhere?

I'll ask him for links to his papers, but the bottom of the corporate site has a bunch of links:

http://pulsarinformatics.com/fatigue-facts.html

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#136

Post by klipt »

pestaa wrote: post #128
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'oversleep' is often dehydration.

What do you mean? Am I just dehydrated when I feel overslept, or oversleeping causes dehydration? The latter makes little sense to me, but I'm asking for clarification because this issue happens to me quite often.

> oversleeping causes dehydration? The latter makes little sense to me

Well, when you're awake you will get thirsty and drink if you overheat. If you're asleep you won't.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#138

Post by nazgulnarsil »

pestaa wrote: post #128
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'oversleep' is often dehydration.

What do you mean? Am I just dehydrated when I feel overslept, or oversleeping causes dehydration? The latter makes little sense to me, but I'm asking for clarification because this issue happens to me quite often.

both. the longer you are asleep the more dehydrated you are, exacerbating grogginess.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#139

Post by ars »

vacri wrote: post #133
ars wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please be careful in reading You should take your own advice. Bi-Modal sleep has a lot more evidence than just that, and the article includes some from historians, which I guess you missed. This sleep pattern is well accepted, and has been known for decades. Not sure why they are writing an article about it now, except maybe the author heard about it and decided it would make an interesting article.

So quote them. Xurinos is rightly pointing out the lack of referencing. By the way, I worked in sleep medicine, first as a medical tech, and then in technical support for the medical equipment. I never came across the idea that split sleep sessions was right or healthy, and never heard the sleep physicians or clinical specialists mention such a thing. It is far from "well accepted and known for decades", at least up…

References, many by Ekirch but not all:

http://www.history.vt.edu/Ekirch/sleepcommentary.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.2/ah00034...

http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc99/9_25_99/bob2.htm

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sleep-disorders/content/arti...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2008....

http://www.nature.com/scientificamericanmind/journal/v17/n6/...

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sleep-deprivation/content/ar...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2647798/

There is very little criticism of this, both modern studies and research of historical language and literature find the same thing.

Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep

#140

Post by kylebrown »

lobotryas wrote: post #92
mmwako wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. As a matter of fact, I do meditate :) From my experience (nothing scientific), to replicate these states, what you need is to shut down your rational mind. You see, everyone has in there mind a small voice going "hey, I like this lamp" or "mmm I forgot to do something". This voice is your rational, conscious part of your "self". However, it's not your entire "self". Meditation aims at quieting…

That sounds pretty interesting. Any suggestion on books or ofher resources for peope new to meditation? How did you get started with meditation?

I like Alan Watts for meditation.[1] I have some mala beads as he suggests, and find they help me a lot. Its easier to time sessions, just count the beads with your fingers and when you reach the end of the mala, you can stop. They also help one to breath/count without consciously focusing on breathing/counting, or even worse, getting stuck in your head trying to focus on not focusing.

Regarding sleep, read something very interesting the other day about Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder (DSPD).[2] Something that might help is a program called f.lux that reduces the blue light in your monitor in the evening, supposedly making it easier it to sleep. I haven't tried it yet but intend to soon.

1. http://www.mediafire.com/?u53kedhwn5w

2. http://evincarofautumn.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-to-be-produc...

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