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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#131

Post by brokenkebaby »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

>Rust members were "uncomfortable" with this purely technical viewpoint - not their behavior, personal beliefs, or even their demographic?

Claim of "feeling uncomfortable" was invented to be a tool of political fighting which allows to declare something, or somebody as unacceptable, completely avoiding debates. As it's becoming generally normalized, it's absolutely logical that it spills into other fields of human interaction. It's simple, and efficient, so why not?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#132

Post by cookieperson »

rurban wrote: post #23
arp242 wrote: post #10

I've been to plenty of conferences over the years, and I never really knew who was a "keynote speaker" or "only" a "speaker". Does anyone pay attention to this? You give a talk. People show up. They clap at the end. Does it really matter what some title on some conference website is? The communication was perhaps a bit more confusing and hectic than it should have been, but does that really matter? Is that really a b…

Usually a keynote speaker is invited, and gets his travel and hotel costs reimbursed. Without reimbursement you usually think twice if you visit a conference or not. And I never heard of downgrading a speaker before, even if I heard of plenty of conference drama before.

I haven't and I've followed various academic fields for 10 yrs or so.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#133

Post by CoastalCoder »

indy wrote: post #88
junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

I wonder if that quote was tongue-in-cheek. It reminds me of the reviews of the Three Wolf Moon t-shirt on Amazon [0].

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Three-Wolf-Short-Sleeve/dp/B...

Re: Why I Left Rust

#134

Post by brabel »

bitwize wrote: post #9
locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

No, open source is just like this now. I think it's a confluence of factors: 1) Open source is more about interpersonal collaboration than it ever has been. The lone hacker throwing tarballs -- or patches -- over the fence is dead. Open source projects now more closely resemble "real world" software projects: a team of engineers using collaborative tools, working toward a defined shared vision with management and ove…

> LGBTQ > neurodiverse > greater awareness of oneself as a member of certain classes.

What the actual f*ck does all of that have anything to do with the topic being discussed?? Unbelievable! This is about a person being demoted by the Rust Project, going against the actual vote of "The Rust Project Leadership", with a slight reference to the race of the person in question being a potential factor - but without any convincing evidence, so it's hard to keep focus on that only - the main thing being already plenty bad enough (the lack of consideration for a person, the lack of respect for the democratic vote...). But going from this to what you're saying seems absolutely ridiculous and makes me question the sanity of anyone making such sort of connection.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#135

Post by xigoi »

chillbill wrote: post #79

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will. I read through the original blog post from JeanHeyd[1] and in no way do they mention anything related to being a person of color, why then does JT associate it with that? I have no idea about the inner workings of the rust leadership team and who they are even, but from the timeline described and from the original post, there's nothing the could be related to that. Jean…

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#136

Post by Oddskar »

How petty are you as a person if you disregard your peers and screw someone over just because you're "uncomfortable" with a technical article?

Can we just stop with this intolerance of differing opinions? It's OK to disagree with someone. We don't need to all share the same opinions. Why the fuck would you have a conference if not to inject some healthy discourse in your community?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#137

Post by cookieperson »

vikramkr wrote: post #22
jenadine wrote: post #11

I once got a talk demoted from a normal talk to a lightning talk at some unrelated conference to make it work with the schedule. That was indeed not nice. But also not "Cruelty". I just acted professionaly and accepted the change.

I think it would have also been perfectly professional to decline in that case, since it's clearly poor planning on the part of the folks organizing the talk. And demoting the keynote speaker is even worse - especially when in this instance something like scheduling doesn't seem to be the excuse

It is always professional to remove yourself from unprofessional situations.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#138

Post by glogla »

indy wrote: post #88
junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

> Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable"

I think it depends what you're uncomfortable with. I remember some drama about removing some speakers from security conferences a while back, because people were understandably uncomfortable with them being rapists.

But being uncomfortable with ... talk about how compile time reflection might work in future versions of Rust? Huh? What?

Also I do agree about the language. People are from different cultures and so on, yada yada, but to me the used language feels very overdramatized and childish.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#139

Post by rvz »

The so-called "Rust community" (As if that existed) and especially the Rust Foundation is going down blazingly fast, with all these pointless melodrama and tea time tantrums.

This whole post really is a first world problem and the issue at had is as great as the great explosion of the ant hill in the back garden, which almost no-one cares about.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#140

Post by brabel »

znpy wrote: post #13

So basically “I don’t like your article” is enough to get a speaker removed in the rust conf / rust leadership space? Ngl, that looks like teen drama. Really poor leadership, it seems there wasn’t even an attempt at mediation, or a vote, or anything.

> Really poor leadership, it seems there wasn’t even an attempt at mediation, or a vote, or anything.

The post claims that THERE WAS a vote, and that vote was to give the person a keynote talk... that was somehow rejected by the Rust Project... as the blog post asks at the end, how the heck can someone just say to the Rust Leadership, your vote is just void as I don't like the person or the talk?! How is that possible? Is the Leadership vote just accepted if the top dog likes the result, but not to be taken seriously otherwise?? How do people actually accept this kind of bullshit? If you are in the Rust Leadership, do you just accept being just a token like that? With your votes being completely ignored unless it aligns with the real power broker?

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