I don't why bard isn't coming to the EU. Is it this or something else. Google hasn't explained it. I would hope that any ai act will allow reasonable players like Openai, Microsoft and Google to continue their good work without ruining into too much red tape. Considering what is happening, if it's because of the ai act, the act might be too strict as the EU risks getting disadvantaged by not having access to the same tools as 180 other countries. AI will ultimately prove too useful to ban.
The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
131–140 of 298 posts
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you say the same things about FDA regulations? As a programmer who used to work on medical devices, these sound pretty similar like the FDA regulations we dealt with. The goal isn't to stifle innovation, it's to keep scammers and crooks out of the market and make things better for everyone. The EU doesn't want another Thalidomide, and the US shouldn't want another Theranos.
Sometimes it feels like allowing scammers and crooks is kind of the goal, isn't it?
What? I don’t follow the logic. How could regulation in favour of protecting the rights of citizens over corporations be intentionally facilitating scammers?
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, like food safety regulations, other places still won't abide. It's not like "other places still will allow abuse of their citizens" is a great argument for us to as well. Safety regulations exist in every major industry, and sometimes it slows some progress for the sake of individuals. This isn't a bad thing.
I don't know why people compare software regulation to the regulation of physical things that do obvious harm like food regulations.
Considering how much software actually export controlled under, e.g. ITAR (coming from the US by the way), your point is?
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#134The acceleration of the divergence of the EU from the United States with respect to cutting edge software will be a site to behold. One is neutering and the other is cultivating.
Because many of the US's so called cutting edge SW has mostly been privacy invasive data harvesting empires designed to serve ads, like Google and Meta, or regulation dodging apps like Uber and AirBnB, or monopolies engaging in anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior, like Amazon, Microsoft and Apple. With that logic TikTok is also some fancy innovation. None of the FAANGMAULs have their hands clean. Same with sc…
This hits the nail on the head. We have talent and we have tools, but the current market incentives lead to these being used to develop things that are often actively negative for people. We need democratic regulation to make it so that the incentives favour meaningful innovation, not just mindless data-harvesting mental health-destroying apps.
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let’s see how much effort the compliance is. Just having to know about it is a burden for a small startup.
It propably is, based on how many of those small, VC backed start-ups, complain about, I don't know, the burden of properly declaring taxes, paying social security for their properly registered employees and so on.
How many do complain about that?
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know why people compare software regulation to the regulation of physical things that do obvious harm like food regulations.
Could you please clarify: is your position that software is not capable of doing harm?
Yes, most software is harmless. There are some scenarios where it could do harm, but ultimately said harm was the product of human usage of the software, not software inherently. There are a few examples such as medical device software and things like train software where honest mistakes can result in human harm. However even with those the issue was that humans made the mistakes.
Software development as a discipline certainly needs more rigor like the other engineering disciplines. However the AI act is premature since AI ultimately is an implementation detail for a variety of use-cases, that should be regulated independently, not AI. Regulating AI in general is like regulating electrons.
If the EU has an issue with AI potentially resulting in more misinformation, then regulate the types of sites, that is social media, that would be the vector for such spread.
I'm open to counterexamples outside those class of examples.
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Big companies can afford regulations. They will do just fine with writing all the compliance documents But Small companies can’t afford the compliance overhead. And big companies can only develop out of small companies. So they will develop elsewhere
They said the same about GDPR and is working fine. If a company crosses me I just request data removal and call it a day. It's all good. I do hate GDPR popups tho.
by what metric is it working fine?
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sometimes it feels like allowing scammers and crooks is kind of the goal, isn't it?
What? I don’t follow the logic. How could regulation in favour of protecting the rights of citizens over corporations be intentionally facilitating scammers?
I meant that being to scam people is an actual goal of people opossing rwgulations like the discussed AI act or GDPR. Or financial regulations, the whole crypto space, last weeks over hyped society saving tech, is built on the assumption financial reulations don't apply to crypto.
I am all in favor of reasonable, individual rights protecting regulation. The EU AI act might just be one, as is GDPR.
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
? Do you think there’s some kind of karmic point scoring system that you win by being the first one to build horrible unethical dystopian AI models? Or are you just complaining you won’t be able to horrifically exploit people using them to make lots of money? …because, sure, red tape is bad, but is it ultimately that terrible not being a allowed to be super villain? “But America has super villains! …! We’re being lef…
Well you need patents and those patents will be created and registered in the US or China this way. Kind of like how EU car manufacturers have been sleeping on the EV movement. Now they have to source their parts from Chinese manufacturers. So wealth is leaking(patent costs etc) out of Europe and the continent will have less wealth in total over time. Especially now that the cheap Russian energy they had access too i…
Wouldn’t those patents be for things the EU sees as unethical anyway, and therefore something they shouldn’t build? Or do you mean the rest of the world might use these unethical, super-villainy means to discover and patent totally normal things that they might want to use in the EU as well?
> Kind of like how EU car manufacturers have been sleeping on the EV movement. Now they have to source their parts from Chinese manufacturers.
Do we know that’s actually because they weren’t able to innovate on their own due to Brussels regulation, or some other factor?
Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The effect is going to be that all the innovation happens elsewhere, big AI companies will develop outside Europe. Why though? Like, most of the requirements listed in the AI act seem extremely reasonable and low-overhead, if not seriously meek. Given the immense budgets AI labs can call upon, why would "having to fill a form that says you made sure the AI wasn't racist" be a disqualifying factor?
Let’s see how much effort the compliance is. Just having to know about it is a burden for a small startup.
Then it should be factored into the profitability of starting in the AI sector. And just like for tax, there will be new external audit services that lower the costs of these overheads. In a way, these regulations create whole new kinds of industries