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Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

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Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#131

Post by skinnymuch »

smsm42 wrote: post #44
SoftTalker wrote: post #12

My eyes really opened to this during the pandemic and its aftermath. Working from home I did almost nothing productive. Got paid the same. Returning to the office, I noticed half the people still seemed to be working from home most days, so I started doing that too. And did almost nothing productive. Nobody apparently noticed or cared. Got paid the same. Got the same raise (yes, below inflation). So now I have given…

Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be able to steal anything high value, there's a lot of things you'd be able to steal without being caught, and why pay for something if you can have it for free? Most grocery stores are owned by billion-dollar corporations, which don't hesitate to raise prices, enga…

The facts and data show how absurdly criminal companies are. They steal 15%-ish from their workers.

Corporations complain about shrinkage so much. Shrinkage includes lost items. Shoplifting, and most of all employees stealing. As you noted.

Employees steal more than shoplifters. They are exploited and mentally alienated and isolated with the strict way corporations handle low level employees. Some see they are cogs and the moral system is fugazi.

All workers and lower class will always have more in relation to one another than the capitalist owners or police there to protect capital, property, power.

“Why don’t you shoplift”? I won’t go over what I do in a thread where it can be used against me.

OTOH the American system has stolen from me. I pay my taxes so I expect a balance of the government helping me too not just corporations. Unfortunately I never received any help from the state while others in my situation with more privilege were at least able to get the meager $15K a year from disability so I wouldn’t have had to be r-worded etc for a place to sleep where at least my laptop won’t get stolen (while the state didn’t provide any help). I was a child when I was abandoned by the state.

At the same time, liberal countries enable and help businesses all the time. Look toward austerity and tax breaks since the 80s thru to Biden and Dems not undoing Trump’s cuts.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#132

Post by skinnymuch »

pierat wrote: post #63
smsm42 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be able to steal anything high value, there's a lot of things you'd be able to steal without being caught, and why pay for something if you can have it for free? Most grocery stores are owned by billion-dollar corporations, which don't hesitate to raise prices, enga…

Go look up banana trick, aka PLU 4011. This shoplifting joke is thanks to the replacement of humans with these terrible self(aka unpaid) scan machines. Stuff gets put in as bananas, and then weighed. You pay $.29/lb for whatever. And this works beautifully for high price stuff like steaks and the like. Not that I advocate physical theft, but it's definitely a thing. And it's a thing where more people are being screwe…

Hey I tried to add a top root comment going over my disputing of what others are saying. Sister sibling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35777458

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#133

Post by skeaker »

gammabetadelta wrote: post #25
throwawaysleep wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t be at my employer years later, so why does it matter? Max of 4 years to cash out the stock.

one has to have honor for themselves you may win the FIRE game but you've cost yourself the chance to be something you respect

This line of thought shows a fundamental difference in perception. To a lot of people, working a 9 to 5 will never make you respectable no matter what it is you're actually doing. These people work to live, whereas your stance is that of someone who lives to work. I don't care how the company remembers me after I've retired and never have to give them so much as a spare thought. I have a whole life ahead of me that I intend to live without having their massive black hole of time waste looming over me.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#134

Post by tremon »

realjhol wrote: post #110
RalfWausE wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am more in the "do everything you can to let the big corporations die" camp... but to each their own

Decent people are in the "stealing is wrong" camp

Decent people are also in the "if you want people to do work for you, you need to pay them" camp.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#135

Post by RangerScience »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #124
RangerScience wrote: post #62

> Is there some way to correct this? How do you reward good behaviour here, and discourage “misbehavior” like this? …Yes? As the employer, find ways to be as generous and rewarding as possible. In immortal other words, “Fuck uou pay me.” Every example provided was “I went above and beyond and was not rewarded for it.” The fix is rewarding people for it.

Yeah but as the Dilbert comic at the end demonstrates, offering rewards for good behavior leads to perverse incentives. So wcyd?

https://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-6/page-125-2/

> "The lie of the slope is the implication that we have ever been or could ever be on level ground."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Emperor_of_Dune

> What do [thinking] machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking-there's the real danger.

Your workplace has an incentive structure (probably a complex one, made up of monetary, social, etc factors). That structure is akin to a machine. That machine should aide you - as an IC, it should aide you in doing quality work in alignment with business needs; as a manager, in motivating and coordinating your ICs. It shouldn't do it _instead_ of you.

The idea that you can't add rewards for good behavior _because_ it will result in perverse incentives is, IMHO, akin to thinking you can't add code to the product because it'll result in bugs.

So what can you do?

Engage with your people, be generous with them; be generous with rewards and praise and all the good things when they do well; be generous with forgiveness, coaching, and teaching when they do poorly, and be generous with your time and involvement. Do your own thinking - don't have the machine-that-is-the-corporation do it for you, because it's full of bugs and always has been. Be engaged so that you can adjust as things play out.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#136

Post by pierat »

skinnymuch wrote: post #130
pierat wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In chronological order: Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. I find new areas I want to deep dive in. And I do just that. I may not be at full mastery of a thing, but I'm proficient at all of them. I'm also superb at blending them together in unorthodox ways, and that's where you can really shine. Recognizing that…

> Linux admin, reverse engineering, VM infrastructure, 3d printing and design, electronics design, radio and signals, docker, K8s, ML, ChatGPT. Wow such breath. Chronological order makes this even cooler. I believe I can do some semblance of Linux admin, reverse engineering (depending on what this means), VMs, LLMs. > Or combining electronics design with ChatGPT allows rapid iterative design I haven’t advanced with L…

Well, good question.

There's a LOT of stuff I'd like to involve in ChatGPT4, pertaining to organization rules. They're so voluminous, that nobody really knows them, especially around "colors of money" and appropriations committees. That sort of thing.

I would love to ingest those rules all in a special enclave of ChatGPT4 run inhouse that we can give it whatever.

To talk 'around' where I work, it'd be a felony to do that. But in areas where the data is public , I've played a bit and super surprised at the results.

As an example, look up a game you like with rules publicly available. Ingest it in as a url, and start asking it questions. I think you'll be significantly surprised. Also, try asking it strategy questions on win-optimization and rules exploitation. All these easily extrapolate to the real world.

The real key is to embrace ML in all forms, and use it to leapfrog your skills. And it took can help show you where to focus given your existing skills and abilities. Try telling it about yourself and just ask!

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#137

Post by smsm42 »

pierat wrote: post #123
kiratp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same energy as “I pirate stuff because it’s not provided to me exactly when, how and at the exact price I want”. “Information wants to be free!” This entire thread is depressing.

Yes, I am an unabashed 'pierat'. I've talked about that elsewhere in comments. And it's because I've been screwed time and again is why I'm solidly in the pro-piracy camp. I've paid enough. And buying legitimately means you're now subjected to buying rentals classified as 'purchase'. Go read: https://xkcd.com/488/ Now as for shoplifting, I did not advocate it. I said I found it funny that shoplifting is being multipl…

Most shoplifting - in fact, almost all of it - in places like SF is not done by people starving and having to steal to survive. If is done by organized crime sending people to steal and then reselling the goods. It is about greed, but of course the actual criminals get ignored and the imaginary criminals are blamed because the ideology demands so.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#138

Post by unmole »

toonalfrink wrote: post #115
j_crick wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be surprised at the amount of people in, say, Europe, who don’t identify with their daytime jobs in the ways some Americans do. The mindset I’m talking about is something along the line of that there’s actual life outside work, and your job is used to pay for it, and that’s about it. In some societies it can be even perceived as rude and selfish if you’re trying to push and be competitive.

European here. I'm honestly shocked to find out that there's anything else than the "work for money so you can live" mindset. Unless you have equity or it's a charity, of course.

You're shocked to find out that pride in craftsmanship exists?

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#139

Post by carlob »

pierat wrote: post #63
smsm42 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be able to steal anything high value, there's a lot of things you'd be able to steal without being caught, and why pay for something if you can have it for free? Most grocery stores are owned by billion-dollar corporations, which don't hesitate to raise prices, enga…

Go look up banana trick, aka PLU 4011. This shoplifting joke is thanks to the replacement of humans with these terrible self(aka unpaid) scan machines. Stuff gets put in as bananas, and then weighed. You pay $.29/lb for whatever. And this works beautifully for high price stuff like steaks and the like. Not that I advocate physical theft, but it's definitely a thing. And it's a thing where more people are being screwe…

> Excuse me while I cry an alligator tear for them

I don't think grocery stores are very sad about it either: they probably ran some cost-benefit analysis and decided that the friction from increased shoplifting cost X, the salary savings are Y and Y > X.

Re: Maybe you should store passwords in plaintext

#140

Post by hnfong »

smsm42 wrote: post #44
SoftTalker wrote: post #12

My eyes really opened to this during the pandemic and its aftermath. Working from home I did almost nothing productive. Got paid the same. Returning to the office, I noticed half the people still seemed to be working from home most days, so I started doing that too. And did almost nothing productive. Nobody apparently noticed or cared. Got paid the same. Got the same raise (yes, below inflation). So now I have given…

Do you shoplift? Serious question. Shoplifting is rarely caught, and even more rarely prosecuted in many major cities (e.g. SF). While you probably won't be able to steal anything high value, there's a lot of things you'd be able to steal without being caught, and why pay for something if you can have it for free? Most grocery stores are owned by billion-dollar corporations, which don't hesitate to raise prices, enga…

Not to advocate for doing either, just to point out potential flaws in your argument:

(1) Value gained

Assuming you steal things that aren't of high value, let's say you steal a bag full of groceries at the supermarket, every day, worth $50. Do this for a year, and you'll have stolen Assuming an annual salary of $100k, if you slack off 75% of your working hours, you'd gain a "windfall" of ~$75k.

Conclusion - the payoff for slacking off is much higher.

(2) Risks and adverse outcomes

Shoplifting is a crime in most jurisdictions. If you get caught, you'll have to deal with law enforcement, even if you don't get prosecuted in the end. That's generally quite unpleasant. If you are prosecuted and found guilty, it tends to make your life quite a bit harder given that many employers are opinionated about hiring people with a criminal record. Not to mention fines or even prison.

If you slack off at work, the worst thing that can happen is a confrontation with your manager, your coworkers look at you funny, and you get fired from the job. This is almost strictly worse than the adverse outcome for shoplifting because if you get convicted of shoplifting there's a good chance you'd lose your job anyway.

Conclusion - the risks and adverse outcomes of shoplifting is much worse.

So in summary, it can be rational to slack off at work but not shoplift for purely selfish reasons.

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