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Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

viemu.com

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Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#131

Post by rgraham »

drblast wrote: post #19

Don't ever start using vi. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have vi key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning vi is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. You'll be…

Don't ever have a great experience when you're young. It'll ruin the rest of your life. Avoid it at all costs.

Or maybe you'll move on and it isn't that big of a deal.

You have been warned.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#133

Post by karpathy »

kstenerud wrote: post #69

I've never really felt comfortable in vi. I first started using it in 1989 at home, used it throughout college, and then used it on-and-off during my career, but it's never really felt powerful compared to a GUI editor. I want a scrollbar. I want a list of files in my project that I can just click on to open. I want tabs I can click. I want multiple windows that I can alt-tab to. And since I spend most of my time thi…

I'm with you. I think an equivalent post could have been written on how programming in GUI is much better. What it comes down to is pretty boring and unsatisfying-- both have strengths and weaknesses, and these depend on the specific application.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#134

Post by njharman »

skrebbel wrote: post #52

> Do whatever you want. Don't learn it if you feel it's too much effort just for nothing. Learn emacs instead. Or stay in your IDE using a lousy editor. Whatever. Why do all articles about how wonderful vi is end with condescension? Anyway: vi -> fast editing. IDE -> fast maintenance. I know which one I'd choose. The text editing features of an IDE is not why people choose to use IDEs (note: of course this helps best…

vim key bindings are nothing. If you think vim == keybindings you know nothing about vim.

Saying that "editor/IDE with vim keybindings" is as good as vim. Is like saying a Honda Civic painted red is as good as a Ferrari f70.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#135

Post by eru »

pyre wrote: post #111
recursive wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you have this same resistance to learned when you learning the languages you are presumably programming in? Speaking for myself, no. My reasons for disliking "enlightened" editors are similar to my reasons for disliking alternative keyboard layouts. If I can only be fluent in a highly specialized environment, in a sense, my skills become less portable. I like being able to walk up to someone's computer and just…

> If I can only be fluent in a highly specialized > environment, in a sense, my skills become less > portable. I like being able to walk up to someone's > computer and just use it or help them with their issue This is a non-issue. There are no versions of Windows, Linux or OSX that allow all text boxes to use Vi keybindings. The idea that if you started using Vi or Emacs bindings in an 'enlightened' editor, that you…

Also typing in dvorak layout doesn't destroy your ability to type qwerty.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#136

Post by staunch »

Domenic_S wrote: post #128
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned the bare minimum required to use vi. Insert, find, override-save... That's pretty much it. When vi is the only option, it's good enough; otherwise I'm free to use different editors.

Funny that you got downvoted. The entire industry has spent the last... forever years making things easier to use/gui-fied, and you get dinged for wanting to use those improvements.

Easier for a beginner ≠ better for an expert.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#137

Post by sukuriant »

staunch wrote: post #136
Domenic_S wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that you got downvoted. The entire industry has spent the last... forever years making things easier to use/gui-fied, and you get dinged for wanting to use those improvements.

Easier for a beginner ≠ better for an expert.

Better for expert != harder for beginner

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#138

Post by joshhart »

In his first example, implementing a header file/interface is only CMD-I in IntellJ. Everything else is done automatically.

I can understand why text editing is a big deal, but having an editor that actually understands your code is a powerful thing. Think of an IDE as a gigantic set of macros.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#139

Post by esrauch »

TheCapn wrote: post #132

I guess a nitpick on the article. When you say a "Steep learning curve" doesn't that mean the time to learn is quick? (Think X/Y plot with Time being independant, steeper slope indicates faster learning?)

He is using "steep learning curve" correctly, in your example X-axis is what you want to achieve and Y-axis is how much you need to know to achieve it. The beginning part is a sharply increasing line for vim, you have to learn more to achieve the same amount on the low end.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#140

Post by stock_toaster »

warp wrote: post #113
burke wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who used emacs for five years before switching to vim, my personal experience was that the top-level comment is more true than this one.

As someone who used emacs for 8 years, then swiched to vim and used that for 4 years, and then switched back to emacs 2 years ago -- my personal experience is that being forced to use anything which isn't vim or emacs will give me fits and make me cry, but switching from one to the other is mostly fine.

As someone who has used vim for many years, tried emacs a few times and was confused and disheartened, and continued to just use vim, I can provide no useful anecdotal evidence.

;)

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