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Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

nytimes.com

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Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#131

Post by jmull »

koolba wrote: post #102
mbgerring wrote: post #55

Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. We are overdue for setting the precedent of a former President being charged with a crime, and we ought to go back and charge a few other former Presidents with crimes while we’re at it.

Sure if there’s an actual crime, but what exactly is worthy of charging here? The point of a fair justice system is not to charge a specific someone with something , it’s to go after a specific crime. The legal gymnastics this DA is jumping through to attach charges here makes a joke of the entire justice system. I won’t be surprise if Bragg is disbarred for this.

Keep in mind we don’t know the charges yet, or details of the case, like what evidence there is.

If you pronounce it a joke or predict the disbarment of Bragg now, you aren’t doing it based on the merits of the case.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#132

Post by RoyGBivCap »

rnjesus wrote: post #42
andrekandre wrote: post #34

> After he became president, Mr. Trump and his company reimbursed Mr. Cohen for the hush money and falsely recorded those payments as legal fees. so, if i understand correctly, the main issue is the "falsely recorded those payments as legal fees" part and not the hush money part?

yeah, paying money to someone to keep them quiet isn’t necessarily illegal (i think.. a lawyer’s knowledge would be appreciated here), but trying to write it off as legal fees seems to be the issue. i imagine there are tax implications, as well as what pool of cash the money was paid from (i.e. if it was from campaign money). it’s impossible to say for certain what the exact issue is until the charges are revealed

IANAL but I know that a lot of companies when they lay people off give them various "parachutes" in the form of money and included are anti-disparagement clauses, that if broken you have to return the money.

And a lot of settlement cases could be argued to do the same thing. Using campaign money to do it might be illegal. Again, not a lawyer.

And then there's the whole "a DA can indict a ham sandwich" notion.

I don't pretend to know how this is going to shake out, but I've got my popcorn.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#135

Post by cge »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #75
walrus01 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, adjacent to presidents, Henry Kissinger remains both alive and not charged in any international criminal courts. I think he's literally 99 years old now.

Doesn't the US credibly threaten to invade the Hague should any international court there decide to pursue charges against an American citizen? Best you could hope for is domestic charges or for Kissinger to make a visit to Viet Nam and get arrested there.

You're thinking of the American Service-Members' Protection Act of 2002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

The Hague invasion aspect, and Hague Invasion Act nickname, are perhaps largely symbolic; the less symbolic effects are that it prohibits any part of government in the US from assisting the ICC except in limited circumstances, and bans ICC agents from doing any investigative work in the US.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#136

Post by Scubabear68 »

dashundchen wrote: post #117
Scubabear68 wrote: post #58

[flagged]

People are flagging you but seriously, if you pay attention to state and level GOP politics, the legislative priority of all things is... Banning drag queens? And books that mention anything besides white/cis/straight experiences? Railing against ESG funds? These are the most pressing issues the base think needs to be addressed? I think these GOP efforts inflict real harm, but the top-priotity obsession against trans…

I expected my post to be a roller coaster.

But seriously, taking an HN viewpoint, the GOP has stopped looking at any data other than polls a long time ago (and has only accelerated that trend over time). And real harm is being done to people in the meanwhile.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#137

Post by golemotron »

nimbius wrote: post #81

if anyones wondering why an indictment might not have charges announced, its generally because the prosecution is working to limit the ability of the defendant to influence the court of public appeal before the trial. The prosecution is certainly versed in former president Trumps histrionic theatricality.

So it remains sealed until the trial?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#138

Post by [deleted] »

dashundchen wrote: post #117
Scubabear68 wrote: post #58

[flagged]

People are flagging you but seriously, if you pay attention to state and level GOP politics, the legislative priority of all things is... Banning drag queens? And books that mention anything besides white/cis/straight experiences? Railing against ESG funds? These are the most pressing issues the base think needs to be addressed? I think these GOP efforts inflict real harm, but the top-priotity obsession against trans…

[deleted]

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#139

Post by dmix »

koolba wrote: post #102
mbgerring wrote: post #55

Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. We are overdue for setting the precedent of a former President being charged with a crime, and we ought to go back and charge a few other former Presidents with crimes while we’re at it.

Sure if there’s an actual crime, but what exactly is worthy of charging here? The point of a fair justice system is not to charge a specific someone with something , it’s to go after a specific crime. The legal gymnastics this DA is jumping through to attach charges here makes a joke of the entire justice system. I won’t be surprise if Bragg is disbarred for this.

Even if it’s a conviction I hope the sentencing is appropriate. Wealthy men making sex workers wealthier in order to not disrupt their ostensibly conservative social values is pretty low on my own criminal punishment tier list (especially compared to something that happened during the presidency like the burglary of election-connected properties by Nixon, or more favourable to Clinton’s consensual acts vs his credibility destroying behaviour after). The social/civil consequences of the reveal are often good enough and mostly a pure self-own. If it really is about a misappropriation of some campaign funds/laws then sure I hope there’s an adequate punishment scaled to the crime.

It’s often difficult to disconnect the actual crimes from wanting Justice generally for a person’s net life behaviour… which isn’t how this works IRL nor how it should work. Whether other crimes and social taboos should be better enforced is another matter entirely.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#140

Post by archagon »

pessimizer wrote: post #123

This seems like an obvious call to civil war when we jail an ex-president who is the frontrunner for the next election. Jailing a person who could as likely as not be be supported by a majority of voters for the presidency would probably be the single most anti-democratic act to ever occur in the US. I never thought we could outdo secret trials, but here we are, doing a speedrun into total collapse. I'm just astounde…

The guy is a fucking criminal and this is long overdue. Your rant is unhinged.
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