Live data from Hacker News

Arduino Uno R4

blog.arduino.cc

131–136 of 136 posts

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#131

A nice improvement, but maybe too little too late? I mean, what's the point? An ESP32 has 320K SRAM, 448K Flash and a 240 MHz dual core CPU. And it costs peanuts. That's the competition to beat, and this doesn't reach it, even though the ESP32 came out in 2016. The Arduino has been resting on its laurels for too long, I'm afraid. There's long been things out there much faster and cheaper, and with wifi out there for…

A lot of things Arduino has been putting out recently feels like it might be too little for too late or way to high of a price.

What bothers me about this release is that they are re-using the Uno name for a product that doesn't feel at all like and Uno. I don't think they should have used the name Uno unless they were at least sticking with the AVR family and 5V compatibility, and maybe I'd go so far as to say sticking with the ATmega328.

On the sticking with a 328 side, I would have liked an Uno R4 that expanded power input supported to 24v, replaced the USB-B with USB-C, could be configured to either 3.3v or 5v (defaulting to 5v).

I think moving on to a newer AVR, such as 4808, would be good for an R4 ONLY if the majority of libraries targeting UNO would just work on it.

Personally, my favorite was the Leonardo. I have a small bin of boards in the Arduino Pro Micro form factor, except the end G/5v/TX/RX pins have been replaced with a USB connector, and the 328 was replaced with a 32u4, so they are programmed as if they were Leonardos.

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. So name one, that's cheap, readily available from many manufacturers, through hole, with 100mA+ or so Ids, low enough capacitance to be used with a microcontroller like ESP32. Most of the good MOSFETs I'm aware of are SMT only, which is not beginner friendly. 2N7000 through hole is extremely available damn near everywhere. All companies have a clone of the venerated, classic MOSFET. EDIT: Its also been used in…

The 2N7000 has the minor, trifling, potentially catastrophic flaw that many (most?) of them have completely unprotected gates. (In fact, it's one of the few parts you can reliably source that still offers this feature if you should need it, say for FET party tricks.) This means that the bloody things blow up if you so much as look at them funny. You absolutely need proper ESD precautions to use these things reliably.…

> In fact, it's one of the few parts you can reliably source that still offers this feature if you should need it, say for FET party tricks.

Few? Tons of MOSFETs have no ESD protection, because that ESD protection diode has uA levels of leakage current in practice. Both MOSFETs discussed in this subthread (IRL540 and AO3401A) are both unprotected MOSFETs that blowup from ESD.

In fact, no one has even listed an ESD-protected MOSFET yet.

> Yes, you can be careful about this and order the right part number to get a newer protected-gate version

Unprotected MOSFETs have nothing to do with "old" or "new". Its because that protection diode has a number of characteristics (in particular: sucking currents in a different direction than expected and changing the circuit) that needs to be carefully considered.

You can't just replace unprotected MOSFETs with protected ones and hope that your circuits work. You very well could be shorting out some circuit inadvertently.

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#133
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it can turn on an AO3401A.

Beginners won't use a surface-mount part.

When I was a beginner, I wish someone would have handed me proper surface-mount parts and accompanying breakout boards that would turn them into TH components suitable for a breadboard.

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#134

A nice improvement, but maybe too little too late? I mean, what's the point? An ESP32 has 320K SRAM, 448K Flash and a 240 MHz dual core CPU. And it costs peanuts. That's the competition to beat, and this doesn't reach it, even though the ESP32 came out in 2016. The Arduino has been resting on its laurels for too long, I'm afraid. There's long been things out there much faster and cheaper, and with wifi out there for…

For me, Adafruit ate Arduino’s lunch. In terms of boards, form factor, price, ease of use, there is no comparison. That’s what confuses me about this board: why should I buy this vs any similar Adafruit board?

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2N7000 has the minor, trifling, potentially catastrophic flaw that many (most?) of them have completely unprotected gates. (In fact, it's one of the few parts you can reliably source that still offers this feature if you should need it, say for FET party tricks.) This means that the bloody things blow up if you so much as look at them funny. You absolutely need proper ESD precautions to use these things reliably.…

> In fact, it's one of the few parts you can reliably source that still offers this feature if you should need it, say for FET party tricks. Few? Tons of MOSFETs have no ESD protection, because that ESD protection diode has uA levels of leakage current in practice. Both MOSFETs discussed in this subthread (IRL540 and AO3401A) are both unprotected MOSFETs that blowup from ESD. In fact, no one has even listed an ESD-pr…

Gate protection zeners are much more common in the more modern, higher-performance parts. So if you are used to using dinosaurs, you might think they're rare. Also, manufacturers occasionally get sloppy about noting their existence; you really need to see an I_GSS spec to be sure. (And because, well, if you're concerned about gate leakage, that is the spec!)

The 2N7000 is significantly worse than other MOSFETs. I don't know if that's because it's older, because its fab process is worse or was worse at one time, because it's easy to get those TO-92 legs into trouble, or just because of the die's low C_iss, but it's one fragile little bastard. The 2N7002 seems to be much better!

> Unprotected MOSFETs have nothing to do with "old" or "new".

Yes, they do, because the 2N7000 is older (1986) than integrated gate protection devices! Anything you see with them isn't a "true" 2N7000, even if it might meet the JEDEC spec sheet (which is rather hard to turn up...). Modern versions might have protection or might not (check the letters at the end of the part number... and hope you've got the right era of datasheet... and hope you've got the original MPN and don't have to read the condensed markings on the parts themselves... oh and hope you know the actual manufacturer!), but if they're older then they certainly won't have protection. So it kind of is an old (nope) versus new (maybe) thing.

> You can't just replace unprotected MOSFETs with protected ones and hope that your circuits work. You very well could be shorting out some circuit inadvertently.

Okay, technically, yes. In practice, no. Enhancement MOSFETs are usually used for power/switching applications, which won't care one damn bit about a silly diode, or in feedback loops for analog applications, which again won't care much. For various reasons, JFETs and depletion MOSFETs are usually preferred in analog-land, along of course with ICs. That's not to say you don't see discrete enhancement MOSFETs, but it's very, very uncommon. (And when I try to design that sort of stuff, I always seem to get stuck on not being able to find a FET without the pesky diodes built in. Sigh.)

Re: Arduino Uno R4

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, it's one of the few parts you can reliably source that still offers this feature if you should need it, say for FET party tricks. Few? Tons of MOSFETs have no ESD protection, because that ESD protection diode has uA levels of leakage current in practice. Both MOSFETs discussed in this subthread (IRL540 and AO3401A) are both unprotected MOSFETs that blowup from ESD. In fact, no one has even listed an ESD-pr…

Gate protection zeners are much more common in the more modern, higher-performance parts. So if you are used to using dinosaurs, you might think they're rare. Also, manufacturers occasionally get sloppy about noting their existence; you really need to see an I_GSS spec to be sure. (And because, well, if you're concerned about gate leakage, that is the spec!) The 2N7000 is significantly worse than other MOSFETs. I don…

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/nvmjst3d3n04c-d.pdf

August 2022 part. Unprotected MOSFET. Top-of-the-line, modern technology with 0.003 Ohms Rds, 157 Amps supported.

Protected vs unprotected has nothing to do with old or new. And yes, the specs on the 2N7000 suck, but who cares? It gets the job done and is the dirt-cheapest part. Beginners don't need performance, they just need lots of parts to play with, so cheapness probably takes priority.

> Also, manufacturers occasionally get sloppy about noting their existence

What are you talking about?

Any MOSFET with ESD-protection has a Human-body model (HBM) ESD specification. Probably in the realm of 2000V, or +/-1700V, depending on how the protection diode works.

TI btw makes a ton of ESD-protected MOSFETs with 4000V ESD and like 50nA of leakage. But they're much costlier, and of course surface-mount only because that's what pros use in practice. (Beginners definitely prefer through hole so that it works on breadboards, which is another reason to use 2N7000).

TI Part for reference: CSD17381F4 / https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/csd17381f4.pdf

You can tell its ESD-protected from the HBM test and CDM test. Also, the circuit model shows the protection diode.

Post reply on HN