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Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

theguardian.com

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Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#131

Post by dragonwriter »

wnevets wrote: post #115
magicalhippo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wanted research that showed how playgrounds could affect kids later in life. I tried to show that research suggest that indeed overly safe playgrounds can do that. In my other comment on this article I mention a playground designer I knew, and this was one of the things he worked hard to change. He wanted playgrounds where kids could feel danger, so they could develop and get challenged, but that were still suffi…

> I tried to show that research suggest that indeed overly safe playgrounds can do that But you didn't, your post is play vs no play. No one is arguing that no play has zero affect on children and their adulthood. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. Playgrounds for children are a relative new invention, especially for the unwashed masses. The notion that children require a dangerous feeling playground to beco…

> Playgrounds for children are a relative new invention, especially for the unwashed masses. The notion that children require a dangerous feeling playground to become well rounded and mentally tough adults is silly.

Prior to playgrounds, children climbed trees and did all kinds of other edge-pushing play. Modern urban/suburban (and even in many cases rural) environments provide less opportunity for that.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#132

Post by danielheath »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #122
danielheath wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids strength-to-weight ratio is drastically improved. My youngest fell that far when he was nearly 3, and was merely annoyed about it. An 80kg adult who gets unlucky falling that distance is headed for the hospital.

As someone who broke their arm as a kid falling off monkey bars, I can say that this is very case by case.

A kid that can get onto monkey bars has a much worse strength/weight than a two year old.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#133

Post by stephen_g »

chmod775 wrote: post #15

These things are ubiquitous in Berlin: https://stage.berliner-seilfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/201... They're not actually that high to an adult, but I have childhood memories of these seeming somewhat tall and scary. On an average one, a young child can fall 4-6 times their own height (but not straight, you'll get buffered by the structure as you go down).

We have a lot of these in Australia too. Some actually are quite high, two or three times bigger than the one in your picture, but they kind of have a rope net base area 1.5m up to fall onto so you don’t hit the ground.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#135

Post by youainti »

jl6 wrote: post #54
magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Someone I know designed playgrounds. One of his core concepts was that there's two aspects to safety. One is subjective. Like when you're high up and you see the ground beneath you, you know it'll hurt if you fall down, so you're more careful moving around. Then there's all the hidden dangers that kids don't think about or see[1], like a small gap where a cord from the clothing can get attached potentially leading to…

There’s a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.

Yep. I like to think of the statement "A controlled failure is often a success".

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#136

Post by wnevets »

dragonwriter wrote: post #131
wnevets wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tried to show that research suggest that indeed overly safe playgrounds can do that But you didn't, your post is play vs no play. No one is arguing that no play has zero affect on children and their adulthood. All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. Playgrounds for children are a relative new invention, especially for the unwashed masses. The notion that children require a dangerous feeling playground to beco…

> Playgrounds for children are a relative new invention, especially for the unwashed masses. The notion that children require a dangerous feeling playground to become well rounded and mentally tough adults is silly. Prior to playgrounds, children climbed trees and did all kinds of other edge-pushing play. Modern urban/suburban (and even in many cases rural) environments provide less opportunity for that.

I know that climate change is getting bad but trees still exist and kids still climb in them.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#138

Post by ccppurcell »

youainti wrote: post #135
jl6 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.

Yep. I like to think of the statement "A controlled failure is often a success".

When teaching kids to juggle, it is useful to say: a touch is as good as a catch

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#139

Post by donw »

jl6 wrote: post #54
magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Someone I know designed playgrounds. One of his core concepts was that there's two aspects to safety. One is subjective. Like when you're high up and you see the ground beneath you, you know it'll hurt if you fall down, so you're more careful moving around. Then there's all the hidden dangers that kids don't think about or see[1], like a small gap where a cord from the clothing can get attached potentially leading to…

There’s a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.

Exactly.

The risk to which we expose kids must ramp from "as close to zero as we can make it" for newborns, to "non-permanent injuries are acceptable" during childhood, and, while this is incredibly unpopular, "serious injury or death" needs to start creeping onto the table during the teenage years.

No, I'm not advocating for burying landmines on football fields, which is what safety cultists would have you believe ("You can never be too safe!" is their customary mantra). But teens need to engage in dangerous activities in order to develop fully into adults, meaning that a non-zero number are going to be maimed, crippled, or killed.

And yes, I have kids, and once they're old enough, they're going to do seriously dangerous stuff. Maybe one will break his neck end up in a wheelchair from downhill mountain biking. Or get stabbed and bleed out during a fight. Or lose a hand while working with power tools. Or...

I can and will do my best to prepare them, to train them to make good decisions, but what I can't do is try and keep them locked in a crib for their entire lives, because if I did, they would never develop the skills to handle real-world dangerous, life-or-death situations.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#140

Post by yesenadam »

wnevets wrote: post #48

Is anyone else like me and just sick & tired of the boomerification of the public discourse? There isn't anything more wrong with kids these days compared to previous generations. Participation trophies didn't matter, foam playgrounds didn't create "soft" kids. Its all non-sense. "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the str…

That's not a real Plato quote. Quote Investigator couldn't find any appearance of it before 1967.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/12/13/riot/

p.s. What I'm sick and tired already of is the word "boomerification", and that's the first time I've seen it.

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