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Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

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Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#131

Post by robrenaud »

danilocampos wrote: post #80
joebadmo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your premise. The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. I'm a bit confused by the recent outcry about relevance. Do people disagree that social s…

> The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. You can wave your hands around in pretty patterns all you want – the fact remains I'm a user who used to enjoy the pr…

This will get rid of synonyms.

http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2011/11/google-verbatim.htm...

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#132

Post by VikingCoder »

waqf wrote: post #94
danilocampos wrote: post #56

A few decades from now, when someone writes up an HBS case study on Google, how will it read? My suspicion is that Google is going to treat us to a very painful object lesson: what happens to your business when you compromise the values of a beloved core product. Here's the thing: having the most complete, most accurate, most relevant search results means never having to say you're sorry. You can add ads, you can do…

I think Google thinks that you and I, who want a search tool that does what you ask for, are a niche market not worth going after. I have no idea whether they're right.

Have neither of you heard of verbatim search?

http://insidesearch.blogspot.com/2011/11/search-using-your-t...

Or turning off Search Plus Your World?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hf5K14O6Fwc/Twufv9LK1PI/AAAAAAAAAL...

No, seriously... Knowing that these two things exist, are you still unable to search what you want to?

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#133

Post by kmfrk »

I think the most important part of this HN thread is that people have gone from giving Google the benefit of the doubt to assuming that everything they do is a part of trying to fuck over the users in any way imaginable in a depiction that is beginning to exceed a vilification greater than Mark Zuckerberg. Google are having the biggest crisis of trust in their entire history. A Gmail alternative seems more welcome than ever before, because who knows what they will do next.

I don't really see anything newsworthy nor controversial in the article, but people are just fed up with everything Google are doing now.

It actually reminds me of the binary ways people tend to hate politicians: either, they find them evil, or they find them incompetent. Microsoft went from being evil to bumbling idiots (to wit, try to remember the Seinfeld ads) - to being sort of neutral in the game.

Now, Google have gone from being regarded as bumbling idiots to evil profit-maximizing clueless assholes who've eroded their brand and goodwill and danced on the line of antitrust suits.

Facebook seems to be viewed as consistently evil, although some developers just seem to hate them for their API and "move fast and break things" philosophy, so YMMV.

It's probably not doing them any favours that they of all the giants have the most invisible CEOs and owners of all, which makes the Google seem like an amorphous corporate blob of evil whose tendrils reach into our data and private lives. Even Ballmer adds some humanity to Microsoft, especially in the recent interview with him: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/steve-ballmer-reboots-0....

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#134

Post by augiehill »

joebadmo wrote: post #76
danilocampos wrote: post #56

A few decades from now, when someone writes up an HBS case study on Google, how will it read? My suspicion is that Google is going to treat us to a very painful object lesson: what happens to your business when you compromise the values of a beloved core product. Here's the thing: having the most complete, most accurate, most relevant search results means never having to say you're sorry. You can add ads, you can do…

I disagree with your premise. The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. I'm a bit confused by the recent outcry about relevance. Do people disagree that social s…

I agree! Thank you for making this comment. Google is only doing what it must to compete in the social search market. Google has all the incentive to bring Facebook and Twitter directly into their search results, but Facebook and Twitter have the incentives to create silos. The only option was for Google to do it's own thing! Now Facebook and Twitter are just bitching and moaning about having some stiff competition.

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#135

Post by smanek »

Aloisius wrote: post #89
pg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter and Foursquare are fairly prominent examples, though in both cases the founders were people who became Google employees when their previous startups were acquired. Among startups we've funded, I know at least Greplin, Optimizely, Appjet, and ReMail have/had founders who previously worked at Google. I'm sure there are at least that many more, but I don't remember where most of the people we funded worked befor…

Hrm. AppJet and ReMail were both acquired by Google though. Greplin and Optimizely Googlers both had years at other companies between Google and the founding their companies. I guess Biz Stone came directly from Google to found Twitter. Given Google's size and the quality of the people who go in there, I'd have expected dozens if not hundreds of companies to be spawned by ex-Googlers. I often wonder if certain compan…

FWIW, Greplin's cofounder (Robby Walker) went straight from Google to Greplin. Although, to be fair, his last startup was acqui-hired by Google too.

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#136

Post by r00fus »

rryan wrote: post #74
brador wrote: post #21

Leaders should lead with a unique style. Their way. Larry's playing catchup with Facebook while thinking he can be Steve Jobs, and that, together with guarding the cents by removing the little things that made life @Google awesome (bagels anyone?) has led to low morale among the workforce. Geeks with low morale don't get shit done. They don't innovate. They don't create. Google staff aren't code monkeys, they're not…

Bagels. Really? That's what it takes to make life at $COMPANY awesome? What about working with smart people on interesting problems?

No shit. I've worked at companies that offered free bagels and it didn't make any difference to me in the long run.

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#137

Post by 6ren »

pshc wrote: post #109
danilocampos wrote: post #56

A few decades from now, when someone writes up an HBS case study on Google, how will it read? My suspicion is that Google is going to treat us to a very painful object lesson: what happens to your business when you compromise the values of a beloved core product. Here's the thing: having the most complete, most accurate, most relevant search results means never having to say you're sorry. You can add ads, you can do…

Regarding your first complaint, I find that 90% of the time the suggestion for a different spelling is in fact the search I wanted. The 10% of cases where I was searching for something obscure do stick out in my mind more, but I'm OK with that. They've optimized for the common case, typos, which is a win overall. I haven't noticed any extraordinary synonym replacements myself, though, the stem's always been the same.…

I've noticed both (typos and stems), and am impressed with how accurate it is.

I miss literal search, and then they removed +keyword - but fortunately, quotes do it now. For example, rip and "rip" give slightly different results, with different emphasis within them: https://www.google.com/search?q=rip https://www.google.com/search?q=%22rip%22

Google's predictive search while you type is amazing, especially because it is so fast - you can select the search you want. It's tab-completion for the web. And it can be informative in itself, if you aren't sure of the right terms. (i.e. the deep search problem of not knowing what you are looking for).

I think they are doing a great job of searching for what you want - which is their goal. Technically precise searches aren't their main goal (though I wish they retained it somewhere).

However... artificially ranking their own links, ranking that isn't objective, is deadly to the utility of their search, and to their brand. In the past, google products have seemed to rank highly, but google claimed this was their natural rank. What is the evidence against them now? EDIT ok, the evidence is explicit and damning: http://www.focusontheuser.org/examples.php EDIT2 ok, I'm not getting the results they claim, at all. I'm using "google.com" but from Australia. Maybe that's why.

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#138

Post by surferbayarea »

joebadmo wrote: post #76
danilocampos wrote: post #56

A few decades from now, when someone writes up an HBS case study on Google, how will it read? My suspicion is that Google is going to treat us to a very painful object lesson: what happens to your business when you compromise the values of a beloved core product. Here's the thing: having the most complete, most accurate, most relevant search results means never having to say you're sorry. You can add ads, you can do…

I disagree with your premise. The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. I'm a bit confused by the recent outcry about relevance. Do people disagree that social s…

> Do people disagree that social signals can add to relevance? If not, then how does Google get these social signals, if they're locked out of FB and twitter?

Let's say fb/twitter release a public api to access the social signals. So things like number of likes on a particular news page. In return, is google willing to release the data on number of clicks on a particular search result for all queries? Seems a bit hyprocritical no ?

Re: Larry Page to Googlers: If You Don’t Get SPYW, Work Somewhere Else

#140

Post by enjo »

danilocampos wrote: post #80
joebadmo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your premise. The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. I'm a bit confused by the recent outcry about relevance. Do people disagree that social s…

> The two previous "compromises" you cite are both examples of giving you what you want, instead of what you said you want. While your anecdotal data says that you are annoyingly misled by that, I'm sure there's a measure of selection bias there, and I'm sure Google has a lot more than anecdotal data. You can wave your hands around in pretty patterns all you want – the fact remains I'm a user who used to enjoy the pr…

My experience matches yours. The synonyms and spelling corrections are tools that make my experience with google much better.

The issue, for me, continues to be the quality of the results. I still have a lot of issues with duplicate content polluting the results (particularly on programming related queries). I still have to dive a few pages deep way too often to find what I really want.

Although I've yet to find a competitor who consistently does better (or even as well).

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