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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

bbc.com

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#131

Post by [deleted] »

bradchris wrote: post #61
SeanLuke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends on how you define a university. I think the institution that invented the term probably gets to define it. And that is the University of Bologna.

So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic: Bihaqq Al-riwayatt (“the right to restate the learning to somebody else“). Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. The medieval Enlightenment and subsequent Renaissance was huge for Europe, yes, but just as important to realize today is…

[deleted]

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#132

Post by pradn »

SeanLuke wrote: post #122
bradchris wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic: Bihaqq Al-riwayatt (“the right to restate the learning to somebody else“). Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. The medieval Enlightenment and subsequent Renaissance was huge for Europe, yes, but just as important to realize today is…

> So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic What evidence do you have for this extraordinary claim? > Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. This is also an unfounded claim. University garb is derived from monstic order garb, which in turn is from early Nicean period monk tradi…

Wiktionary states the following for "baccalaureate":

From French baccalauréat, from Medieval Latin baccalaureatus, from Latin baccalaureus, an alteration of baccalārius (“young man aspiring to knighthood”), to resemble bacca lauri (“laurel berry”) (the ancient symbol of victory). Compare bachelor.

For "baccalaureus":

Alteration of baccalārius, influenced (by folk etymology) by Latin bacca ("berry") and laurea ("laurel") due to the fact that graduates wore laurel crowns filled with berries in order to represent the fruit of their study. Perhaps of Celtic origin, from Gaulish *bakalakos, itself borrowed from Latin baculum (“stick”).[1]

No Arabic roots here.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#133

Post by quackduck »

msla wrote: post #79
ugh123 wrote: post #55

Bare with me here: Why is it that articles need to start with lines like > "The winter morning was cloaked in thick fog..." and postpone the actual information pertaining to the title? Instead, we have to sift through irrelevant story-like content to get to the meat of the information and facts. Will one promise of tools like ChatGPT and their successors be to summarize-away this fluff?

> Bare with me here: Most people would pay money to ensure I don't. > Instead, we have to sift through irrelevant story-like content to get to the meat of the information and facts. Because journalists are frustrated novelists, and editors think the "human interest" angle sells.

> editors think the "human interest" angle sells.

does it not?

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#134

Post by dopidopHN »

bnralt wrote: post #121
teleforce wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that proper university did not exist before 11th century is disingenuous at its best and propaganda at its worst. It's like saying there is no proper engineering existed before civil engineering (civilian engineering) while military engineering has existed since time immomerial. There were numerous institutions of higher learning or universities in Muslim Spain, Middle East and Italian Sicily that the latter w…

I don't think anyone disputes that there were religious centers of learning that occurred earlier. But in cases where these institutions are Christian, people seem fine saying that they were monasteries and not universities. Monastic intellectual tradition is well known. But with many non-Christian intellectual religious centers, people seem intent on using the term "university." Using different standards for Christi…

Monasteries were closed to the public and most orders ( if we exclude the jésuites) we’re not that into science. Rather theology / philosophy. Their main goal was often conservation of the scriptures.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#135

Post by bnralt »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #130
bnralt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the father says that the etymology of all English words can be traced back to Greek[1]. When someone challenges him with the word "Kimono," he pauses for a second, and then concocts a semi-plausible sounding explanation about how the word evolved from a Greek word. A comedy, but I think it does reflect how a lot of people can be so impressed by their own culture that…

> There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding And there is linguistics, a science that studies language including etymology.

I mean, I don’t think anyone here doubts that linguistics exists. The point was rather that fake etymologies also exist, and can be extremely common. As other replies have noted, it doesn't look like there's evidence that the word "Baccalaureate" comes from the Arabic "Bihaqq Al-riwayatt," and there seems to be a high likelihood that this is a fake etymology.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#136

Post by Maursault »

bradchris wrote: post #61
SeanLuke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends on how you define a university. I think the institution that invented the term probably gets to define it. And that is the University of Bologna.

So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic: Bihaqq Al-riwayatt (“the right to restate the learning to somebody else“). Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. The medieval Enlightenment and subsequent Renaissance was huge for Europe, yes, but just as important to realize today is…

> Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition.

This particular "fact" is in error unless you believe Medieval Christian monks copied Arabic dress. Academic dress in the US derives from Oxford and Cambridge, which was developed from extremely common clerical garb of the Middle Ages. Arabic dress is not necessarily black, but also white and dyed colors, are shaped differently than academic dress and have a trim never seen in academic dress. The two types of dress have origins distinct from each other. They may both belong to a larger category of robes, but the similarity ends there.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#137

Post by amardeep »

uptownfunk wrote: post #116
SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

>> "I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and an…

https://thewire.in/history/macaulays-speech-never-delivered

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#138

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

teleforce wrote: post #71
mzs wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=baccalaureus&old...

Please check this discourse on the matter, perhaps someone can further research on original etymology of the Bachelor word [1]. I have read before about the origin of the convocation robe from the fruits gown but it's rather comical IMHO. The more plausible explanation is that they want to copy the learned people at the medieval time, i.e. Arabic speaking people, during the European dark ages by imitating the Arabic…

About the etymology of Bachelor

That's just terrifically improbable. Historically, bachelor's degrees were, in fact, intermediate degrees awarded part way through the period of study required to achieve a master's degree - which was the "real deal". The degrees emerged during a period when the term bachelor was already established as a term referring to a squire or junior knight.

We already have plenty of English words from Arabic; there's really no need to retcon even more.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#139

Post by trafficante »

amardeep wrote: post #137
uptownfunk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and an…

https://thewire.in/history/macaulays-speech-never-delivered

Interesting to see that fake historical quotes espousing “we will defeat those highly admirable yet lesser races through subversion” isn’t limited to anti-semites

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#140

Post by zeckalpha »

SeanLuke wrote: post #122
bradchris wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic: Bihaqq Al-riwayatt (“the right to restate the learning to somebody else“). Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. The medieval Enlightenment and subsequent Renaissance was huge for Europe, yes, but just as important to realize today is…

> So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic What evidence do you have for this extraordinary claim? > Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition. This is also an unfounded claim. University garb is derived from monstic order garb, which in turn is from early Nicean period monk tradi…

Ah, so the robes are Turkish, then?
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