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Most young men are single. Most young women are not

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Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#131
I get quite tired of the boomer-esque takes on HN and everywhere else. The quintessential one is “shower, dress, have a job, and be respectful” is somehow enough to attract just about any woman. People assume that 60% of young men must just be filthy neckbeard degenerates. As far as I can tell - this is cause they never talk to young people or meet any.

Attracting young women today is an entirely different ballgame than in the past and it’s incredibly challenging for average men. I do think social media has warped our perceptions of what an “average man” is. The classic “dad bod” quip is an example. A lot of women have mentioned desiring a “dad bod” and then will point out someone like Jason Mamoa when he’s either off-cycle or not completely shredded. A body that is very much not a “dad bod” at all to most men - this body is already incredibly difficult to attain and required steroids to get to to start with.

The decline of third spaces and ways to interact more in person and without it being transactional has also likely made it really hard. When you need to sell yourself through images - it turns out really only a couple body types are appealing to women when it comes to images alone. Yes, you can be more attractive when interacting in person and they see your full personality but we don’t have the spaces for that anymore. Most young women I meet are incredibly full of stranger danger as well. So many stories of violent rape hit national headlines and most people are taught men are a threat before you even say hello. So, yeah, it’s no wonder you can’t really make a good first impression as an average young man. There’s nowhere to hang out with other young women in person where it’s not transactional and they already assume you’re a threat to begin with… so you’re in bad footing before you even started. The only way I’ve seen to get past this is to be incredibly charming (very rare and person specific) or genetically gifted looking to where people’s defenses are lowered (also rare).

Overall - I blame capitalism. I think its desire for atomicizing everyone and making everything a transaction is the source of all these issues.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#132
post #97

I think that the biggest difference from the past is that mental health of young adults is deteriorating and that it is impacting men more than women. This is largely driven by the isolation brought by modern technologies but also changes in society, as women became more empowered they also rose their standards which once were to merely be able to provide for the family. Among the complains of my female friends menta…

As a male man chap fellow, I have no clue what "masculinity" means, and I have essentially no interest in trying to define it. We're just individuals. Try to be the best kind of individual you can - learn empathy, show interest in others and help them. Maybe you'll meet someone to partner with, maybe you won't, but chasing some societal ideal of "masculinity" is almost certainly not the best way to be the best versio…

Every romantic relationship involves attraction between different polarities a masculine and a feminine one. That's just how laws of attraction work in nature, regardless of the animal and we reflect that.

Don't be confused though, it has nothing to do with sexual orientations and there's perfectly happy heterosexual couples where the energies are inverted: males are more emotional, nurturing and females are more detached, analytical and less emotional or nurturing. We're all on a spectrum of that, it's not black and white.

That being said our brains have not evolved with society and genrally we still lean differently on the two sides of the spectrum.

Men are still attracted biologically to what will give them the most chances to procreate: young, healthy women; and women are still attracted biologically to what will give them the most chances to procreate: a strong man, the clan leader, as the role of the man is really most of the protector.

Now my thesis is that as society evolved the more masculine side of the spectrum is increasingly lacking in young men: less ambition, less purpose in life, less indipendence, increasingly abundant feminine traits like emotional neediness and such.

Thus, most women which are also empowered and basically do not need men anymore as a provider find it increasingly hard to find men that project the qualities of the clan leader.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#133

Throwaway account due to sensitive personal stories. Me and my 4 close friends are reasonably successful in terms of societal standards; we all hit the gym religiously, earn over 100K in a big European city, speak multiple languages and we are all in our early to mid 30s. Dating wise, we each have our funnel of dates from dating apps, nights out where we collect numbers and one night stands. We regularly get around 2…

> there are almost no good girls in westernized society

Here we go again..

The online catalog of a dating app isn't reflective of the majority of the female population of the collective West. This sort of talk always sounds like incelism, even if you purport not to be one.

There's plenty of good women out there, the majority in fact. (some) men today are quick to point out women becoming more demanding or lower quality, but fail to see the same thing in the modern man.

Modern men seem to suffer a crisis of confidence, adolescent hobbies (I'm very sorry, but most women don't find video games attractive, you can think the same about TV shows, but it's the way it is), sedentary lifestyle, while also fostering high expectations from porn and sex-focused media.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#134

Is this surprising? My intuition, backed by approximately 0 data, is that there's a 5 to 10 year age gap preference, such that men prefer to be with slightly younger women and women with slightly older men. As a result, young men don't really have a dating pool. Once they hit 30, as long as they're not total wasters, women will take more interest.

Hug Hefner's intuition was the famous formula: age of the male divided by two, plus seven...

So the ideal same-age relationship is between two adolescents of 14, and a successful 40 year old male would, all things considered, prefer pairing with a 27 year old female.

This matches my observations.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#135
"Even seasoned researchers struggle to fully account for the relationship gap between young women and men: If single young men outnumber single young women nearly two to one, then who are all the young women dating?"

Older men. The article even notes that's a trend that's been increasing in the past 100 years. There's also been a rise in women who aren't attracted to men. It's likely always been the case that a not insignificant number of women were lesbian but needed a man to not be impoverished. Now that those impediments have been removed and women no longer need men for economic security they can more freely be lesbians. And they are.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#137

I think that the biggest difference from the past is that mental health of young adults is deteriorating and that it is impacting men more than women. This is largely driven by the isolation brought by modern technologies but also changes in society, as women became more empowered they also rose their standards which once were to merely be able to provide for the family. Among the complains of my female friends menta…

I think that the amount of opportunities to display masculinity (in a useful way) has shrunk. That has been true ever since we moved off of family farms (where the man did visibly useful work by working on the farm - work that the woman could not do). I think that's what started the re-negotiation of the balance of the sexes, and we're still digesting through that (~150 years later). The other opportunities for mascu…

Not only they shrunk, but they are not really needed anymore by the opposite sex which became at the same time more empowered and independent. Which is good for us as a society but probably detrimental in some ways, and increasingly more, for the mental and sex life of young men.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#138

A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about. You don't need to make 6 figures, to be 6 feet tall, to have the body of The Rock or 2004 Brad Pitt's face. Having one interesting hobby is also a huge plus, even if it's as simple as hiking or jogging. You just need to be minimally interesting.…

>A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about... one interesting hobby... Congratulations, you've just described 95% of men who are gainfully employed in fairly technical white collar sectors of the economy. You're getting down-voted because they are probably the single biggest demographic o…

A lot of people are in denial of basic genetic factors and keep trying to intellectualize mating practices. I found that listening to the "Beat Your Genes" podcast the most helpful out of the resources available.

Women (on average, obviously individuals are different) are attracted to status vastly more than anything else. All the other "requirements" are basically seen as proxies for status (job, income, character, etc).

IT is still seen societally as medium to low status, so people in the industry are going to struggle. I think the best thing you as an individual can do is get a higher-status hobby (i.e. not video gaming, but something like acting or guitar, etc).

I also find that America is completely in denial about the status game, where as other countries are more honest about it (i.e. people will actually tell you)

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most men who have problems in this area are not going on dates. They are not even meeting women. I do not think it has much to do with hobbies.

It's still an issue. When online dating, one of the main thing you get from a person's profile is "what are their interests?". Even if it's not explicitly written down, people try to infer based on the pictures. Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm. You get the idea.

>Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm.

>You get the idea.

I don't get the idea.

Half the comments here are about men lacking healthy masculinity. Now you just described someone who loves going out in the nature. Fishing and hunting are fun hobbies and it's not for men only (literally my local angling club is like ~40% women)

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#140
post #133

Throwaway account due to sensitive personal stories. Me and my 4 close friends are reasonably successful in terms of societal standards; we all hit the gym religiously, earn over 100K in a big European city, speak multiple languages and we are all in our early to mid 30s. Dating wise, we each have our funnel of dates from dating apps, nights out where we collect numbers and one night stands. We regularly get around 2…

> there are almost no good girls in westernized society Here we go again.. The online catalog of a dating app isn't reflective of the majority of the female population of the collective West. This sort of talk always sounds like incelism, even if you purport not to be one. There's plenty of good women out there, the majority in fact. (some) men today are quick to point out women becoming more demanding or lower quali…

The article briefly mentions porn as an issue. I think porn is a much bigger issue than we're letting on. The men who are now in their 20's are the first generation of men to grow up with virtually unlimited access to porn. What are the results? We can empirically conclude they're struggling to form relationships with women. That's correlation, non causation, but others have been researching this issue and their preliminary findings are pointing to porn being a much bigger problem than we'd believed.
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