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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#131

Post by IncRnd »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

  > This is also a case where consumers say they want one
  thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For
  example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full
  price to be shown up front in search result pages. But,
  as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this
  area, the opposite nearly always results in higher
  conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and
  fees are only tacked on during checkout.
That's completely wrong. People don't want hidden fees. They chose those options that have hidden fees, because the fees are hidden and the total cost appears lower. Your AB tests don't compare what consumers want but what consumers are tricked into accepting.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#133

Post by dheera »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

Yes please. Also kill tipping on food delivery apps. It's a mandatory fee, effectively. They ask for tips before service is even rendered. WTF? Just increase the displayed prices by 15%.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#134

Post by ghaff »

eganist wrote: post #33
wpietri wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

> I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate. Frankly, how much it costs to cle…

>how much it costs to clean a unit shouldn't be a separate calculus when comparing rooms

The cost to clean shouldn't. The fact that there's a large fixed charge that's going to be amortized across the number of nights you're staying is relevant though.

Yes, by all means give me the total amount for the stay length. But show me any fixed charges so that I can maybe decide it makes sense to stay longer given part of the cost is fixed.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#135

Post by rootusrootus »

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #54
mhb wrote: post #50

No mention of the ludicrous conglomeration of mobile phone fees?

Yeah that is annoying as hell. Comcast mobile is actually very clear and open- they have no hidden fees. Surprising from them. Verizon can f off, 20%+ extra "fees" all the time.. glad I'm done with them.

Yeah it's interesting that I find myself saying something positive about Comcast. Their Internet pricing is similar. Advertised at $72/month, that's exactly what I pay. No additional fees tacked on.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#136

Post by bradleyjg »

logifail wrote: post #108
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

> this ease of price comparison has resulted in unbundling of services in a number of industries - e.g. airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing" I'm literally just booking a trip with Ryanair, Vienna to London, in just less than a month's time. It's costing me a shade less than $20 for a 770 mile flight, no hidden fees during my purchase... No, it doesn't include a large carry-on bag,…

For legitimately separable things—-like a carry-on bag or assigned seats—-I think unbundling is a good thing. Sure it feels a bit annoying to see the price go up and up, but sometimes you don’t need those things and the search engines should be able to get you an apples to apples price with a bit of elbow grease.

It’s the non-optional fees—- resort, regulatory compliance, or living wage—-that are truly pernicious.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#137

Post by rootusrootus »

themitigating wrote: post #40
bushbaba wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb isn’t even cheaper or more convenient for most travel situations.

Never?

Obviously you can never say never, but in my experience AirBnB is very rarely more economical than a full service hotel. And residential homes are rarely in as convenient a location as a hotel.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#138

Post by shagie »

rootusrootus wrote: post #90
shagie wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lum…

> if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%) It gets even better. In some places (e.g. Washington) you pay use tax[0][1] if the use tax would be higher than the sales tax you did pay. So if for example you buy something in Oregon and bring it home to Washington, you pay all of the use tax. If you bought something in a s…

That was the case before and is still the case, just most of the time they ignore it. It is really looked at when a state borders another one with no sales tax.

Some time back that was also the case with online sales. That you paid the tax of the state where you bought if it if that state had a tax nexus there - otherwise you didn't pay sales tax and were expected to self report the use tax.

Except no one did. So sales tax was required to be collected by online sellers always.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/21/heres-what-that-supreme-cour...

As to the use tax - when I bought clothes at Mall of America in MN (2010ish) and lived in northern Wisconsin I'd remember to add that to the tax reporting.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#139

Post by wpietri »

antihero wrote: post #123
wpietri wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

These people are making money hand over fist, cleaning should be on the hosts, it is their duty to provide clean accommodation.

I don't even understand this.

I show up at a clean place. After I leave, somebody needs to clean up after me to make it good for the next person. No matter who does the cleaning, the hosts or somebody they hire, this takes supplies and labor. The only person putting money in is me, so the cleaning obviously has to be on my dime. I just want the pricing to be transparent in the details and included in the headline numbers.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#140

Post by jimkleiber »

> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.

I don't get it, so it's OK for government to hide its fees but not the business?

I wish the government were to lead by example and also try to eliminate hidden government fees. Here in California, different cities can have different sales tax, and knowing the final price can seem like a guessing game.

I would love if taxes, tips, and other business fees were all included in a final price that were stated upfront.

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