Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

bennettnotes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 535 posts

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#131

Post by chongli »

smoldesu wrote: post #104
massysett wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps.

Everyone likes to say “but would Apple would lose the $100/yr from all those hobbyists.” How many hobbyists do you think are out there right now paying $100/year just to load some apps on their phone? Can’t be more than 1000. Even if it were 10,000 that would represent $1 million/yr in lost revenue for Apple. That’s less than a rounding error on just one quarterly report. They really don’t care about that!

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#133

Post by JohnFen »

robertlagrant wrote: post #69
JohnFen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's a difference, but not one that is actually meaningful to anyone outside of Apple. An affected customer doesn't care about why the policy exists (nor should they have to). The effects are the same regardless.

It's just a comment on the title of the posting. The title assumes an intention that's possibly incorrect. If intention doesn't matter, then why is it in the title?

I'm not the author, so I don't know. But I would say the title is intended to be provocative and, in terms of what this looks like from the outside, isn't an unreasonable supposition.

But, ultimately, it's not an important point either way.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#134

Post by ehsankia »

bragr wrote: post #24

I doubt this is "Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps", so much as "Apple doesn’t want dev accounts to be an easy backdoor for sideloading apps" and hobby apps are an acceptable casualty.

The latest saga with Twitter's API going paid is a whole other can of worm, but APIs everywhere have been closing down and becoming more restricted in the past few years.

I guess the bot and scam usage of APIs cause more headache for companies than the hobby usage benefit they get.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#135

Post by coldtea »

mmastrac wrote: post #78
phkahler wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The arguments for paying for review, distribution, advertising, search, etc feel so disingenuous when the company is worth so much money and these apps are contributing to its bottom line. No, they are not. We are talking about hobby apps and maybe free ones. Those don't contribute to their bottom line. We might say they contribute to the platform. For hobbyist they make it viable. But for paying customers maybe t…

This is the same disingenuous argument. The $99/year isn't preventing junk from showing up on the AppStore, and a lack of $99/year payments doesn't make the Google Play store a dumpster fire of garbage apps. [1] The AppStore is currently filled with low-value junk published by people paying $99/year (1.8 million apps out there, of which most outside of the top X lists are terrible). Will hobby apps really decrease th…

>The $99/year isn't preventing junk from showing up on the AppStore

It's not "preventing junk from showing up on the AppStore", but it does prevent "a whola lot more of junk from showing up on the AppStore"

>and a lack of $99/year payments doesn't make the Google Play stor a dumpster fire of garbage apps

You'd be surprised. Google Play store is notoriously more insecure and loaded with junk, with estimates that close to 90% of mobile spy/malware are on Android rather than iOS.

"According to the whitepaper, Android devices were responsible for 47.15% of the observed malware infections, Windows/ PCs for 35.82%, IoT for 16.17% and iPhones for less than 1%" (Panda Security)

"Over 98% of mobile banking attacks target Android devices"

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#136

Post by api »

sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software.

Apple does sell real computers under the Mac line.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#137

Post by tsgagnon »

rcstank wrote: post #74
JohnFen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be a profitable company without being greedy.

This response reeks of entitlement.

This types of replies aren't really helpful, unless your goal is to elicit some form of "And this response reeks of bootlicking" styled response. Which I can't imagine was your intent.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#138

Post by mmis1000 »

dmitriid wrote: post #42
candiddevmike wrote: post #6

Full PWA support can't come soon enough!

For some random definition of "full PWA support" which inevitably includes Chrome-only non-standards. Meanwhile Android is 70% market share worldwide with that desired "full PWA support". Where are these amazing PWAs?

Why you ever need to if you can just ask user to install app and collect more data? Google never seems to limit the system from allowing app to extract unnecessary data from user properly.(whatever it is intended or just incompetent)

There should be a option like: tell app that it can get my phonebook but don't actually give them. And give app no way to tell which option is actually selected.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#139

Post by rektide »

gretch wrote: post #119
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

My philosophy is that Apple can do whatever they want (as long as legal and ethical). They made a thing, and you bought it. Why would anyone with a bent on free computing walk into what they know to be a closed ecosystem. Just buy an Android phone. It’s like flying to a foreign country and expecting everyone to English to you imo…

The excuse that freedom exists because one other market player is not a tyrant skates extremely thin ice. If Android went dark side too, where would we be?

This excuse is exhausting, lacks any principles whatsoever; these are general purpose devices, browsing the web & allowing arbitrary apps to be developed & squeezed into the world, if they pass through the tyrant's gauntlet. That one company offers some modicum of un-tyranny is a poor defense for locking down & excluding general purpose computing, for withdrawing the systems we have in our pockets from our own ownership & ability to control.

Citizens should have some options. The implications that the market is free to do whatever & citizens are free to pick from what's available seems presently somewhat tennable, but if we step back just a little bit here & look at the picture, it's horrifying. The inability to root most Android phones shows that actual freedom, real general purpose computing, is an extremely fine & narrowing little sliver, of the most important & most used general computing world.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#140

Post by PaulHoule »

flohofwoe wrote: post #76
PaulHoule wrote: post #25

When the mac came out in 1984 people had very much the same complaints as it was the first microcomputer to be released without software development tools.

There were hardly any free compiler toolchains outside the UNIX world in the 80's. But it's not the 80's anymore, time has moved on.

Every micro in the early 1980s came with BASIC except for a few very early ones that only had a front panel machine language monitor.
Post reply on HN