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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

time.com

131–140 of 417 posts

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#131
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundraising expenses are a huge problem with large charities, but it doesn't follow that fundraising annoyingness is a huge problem. It's not a customer service problem with donors; it's a "using too much of proceeds on fundraising" problem.

If an organization believes spending a marginal dollar of money on their programs is the best way to improve the world, then spending $10 to get $11 in donations allows them to spend an extra dollar on it. It's rational and even morally required. (The only potential negative being the extent that winning a contribution crowds out funding from other causes.) More generally, people overly emphasize low administrative e…

I don't want to get tangled up in abstractions here. To a decent first approximation, every large charity well-reviewed by Charity Navigator (or the like) fundraises from past donors aggressively. It would be a red flag if they weren't annoying previous donors. Empirically, the idea of "never giving money to organizations that ask for money" is likely to steer you away from the most effective aid organizations.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#132
Not to say that it isn't a problem or that the community shouldn't do better, but this seems like the sort of stuff you could dredge up about pretty much any group of comparable size. I'm intensely curious about the decision-making process that got this article published.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#133
I find that the following is true: those who are very vocal about their own virtue/altruism are usually rotten.

Those who aren't, often surprise you with their goodness when it matters.

I've found the "I am so good/empathetic/etc" crowd to be either self deluded and useless, or manipulative, specifically for the purpose of trying to work your way in sexually (as in this story)

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#134
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that that bothers me so much as the fact that many effective altruists do it so badly. [...] But effective altruists are as likely to talk about colonizing Mars as they are to talk about global warming. Are they doing it badly, or are you not understanding their arguments? AFAIK effective altruists want to colonize mars on x-risk grounds, which would explain why they want to prioritize that over global warm…

I've yet to see an argument for colonizing Mars for this purpose, that wouldn't be a better argument if the goal were instead "build robust, distributed bunkers on earth, and pay families to live in them part-time so there's always someone there". Cheaper, and more effective. Most plausible post-apocalyptic Earths would be far easier to live on than Mars. The remaining threats that wouldn't also be pretty likely to t…

Pretty much. I want to colonize Mars, but not as a solution to apocalypse scenarios. Long-long term it would help, but yea, it isn't the optimal solution to solve current problems we are facing now. Still want to colonize it, but just because it would be cool. Whether we take 5 years or 150 years to do it or 1,000 years to do it, doesn't bother me. Although doing it in the next 30 years would mean there is a good chance I could see it happen, but thats about it.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of a fascinating series of Reddit threads, starting back in 2009, from somebody who convinced himself he "could handle anything once" and decided to try heroin, only to rapidly spiral out of control: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wef6...

The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake. Particularly, here, I don't think people are at risk of serious withdrawal after only two weeks of heroin use. Though heroin use is obviously one of the dumbest things anyone can do.

As someone who has used opiates for well over a decade (for medical reasons), heroin and stronger synthetic opioids can absolutely cause an opioid naive individual to have withdrawal symptoms after even a week.

This is why codeine OTC recommends no more than three consecutive days of use.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#136
post #42

"Effective Altruism" is one of those things like "All Lives Matter" where what it says on the box is not reflective of the way that people who identify with the ideology practice it.

The best way to fleece a flock is to wrap yourself in a cloak of good intentions. You see it in EA, in churches, in Black Lives Matter. Basically as soon as someone proclaims themselves as beyond criticism because of their superior moral position, start checking for your wallet.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#137
post #7

>Thousands have signed a pledge to tithe at least 10% of their income to high-impact charities. From college campuses to Silicon Valley startups, adherents are drawn to the moral clarity of a philosophy dedicated to using data and reason to shape a better future for humanity. Effective altruism has become something of a secular religion for the young and elite.

I was about to say, tithing 10% sounds like church. Heh the Catholic Church will send you a bill based on your taxes.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#138
post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

> The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments.

How smart you are has nothing to do with it. If you're motivated enough to believe something that you shouldn't believe, you'll talk yourself into it. Smart people might be able to come up with an objectively better (or at least more convoluted) rationalization, but only because they'll require of themselves a better rationalization. Less-smart people won't be as capable of rationalizing, but they also won't be as discerning about the quality of the rationalization. Kind of like how people develop about the right amount of muscle to carry their own weight around, whether that be 90 or 180 lbs.

> EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything.

This sounds negative until you realize this also applies to programming and litigation, chess and go, everything in academia, communism and anarcho-capitalism, etc. The fact that something appeals to know-it-alls says next to nothing about the quality of the thing. Chess isn't a worse game because it attracts insufferable braniacs and other pretentious people, it's just the community around it that suffers. But the communities around everything interesting suffer from those same sorts of people.

> And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things.

> Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. People who know perfectly well they're misbehaving will claim that they aren't, using the same arguments. It won't hold water, but now we're swamped, and the entire thing crumbles.

Once again, yes, people who want to justify terrible things can do so. It's not unique to tech bros. Fundamentalist christians, the homeless, and young activists of any alignment can do it too.

> ...in part because I know too many of the type of people who get involved and aren't trustworthy.

This is the meat; the only question that actually matters: Is it true that EA is disproportionately populated by the "untrustworthy"? If so, then there's a reason to stay away from it. This article's pair of anecdotes are worse than useless for arriving at the answer. All I know after reading it is that the TIMES is interested in taking EA down a peg. The evidence presented is utterly insufficient to support the claim that "EA has a sexual harassment problem [to an unusual--and therefor newsworthy--extent]".

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#139
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called science.

That's the same problem as before. Outside of maybe fundamentalist religious people who think their religious text is the final word on everything, everybody agrees that "science" is the best way of finding out the truth. The trouble is that they disagree on what counts as science (ie. which scientists/institutions/studies to trust). When the disagreement is at that level, casually invoking "science" misses the point…

Even then, some fundamentalist have "science." Kent Ham being an example here.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#140
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. The fundamental idea is sound. However, in practice, it all-too-easily devolves into something really terrible. Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. Personally, I started "tithing" when my first business was a succe…

>Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. It's not that that bothers me so much as the fact that many effective altruists do it so badly . We need to be concerned with the future. That is the only reason to maintain roads and bridges, to prevent pollution, or to conserve resources like water in aquifers and helium.…

Yep. But if you only need to solve problems in what’s effectively your own science fiction novel, you’ll never fail and don’t have to face the very annoying practical problems that keep stuff from getting done in the real world.

Which is why everyone has a fantastic zombie apocalypse plan but no realistic ideas to to address their local non-zombie violent crime.

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