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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#131

Post by bawolff »

kennend3 wrote: post #107
acdha wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent that the government wastes money, why should we believe that's due to a union and not unrelated issues such as outside politics?

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-union-wants-4... You tell us, is a 47% increase in pay "normal"? why did the body intended to help with the negotiations write this: The union’s proposals “do not appear realistic for what should be a fairly advanced stage of negotiations. The numerous proposals are not focused and they would result in an increase to compensation far beyond what is reasonable,” reads the…

> You tell us, is a 47% increase in pay "normal"?

Maybe. Depends on what the value they provide is.

In the tech industry, getting a 47% raise by job hopping to a new job that does the exact same thing, isn't unheard of, so it seems entirely plausible it could be justified. If it actually is in this case, i don't know, but its not crazy on its face.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#132

Post by phkahler »

On the flip side I think one company game me a manager title in order to offer the pay rate I wanted. It also came with a higher annual bonus - up to 15 percent vs 5 for others. My boss was a bit of a micromanager so he mostly ran my team - the official system also gave mixed signals on who they reported to.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#133

Post by cool_dude85 »

kennend3 wrote: post #105
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

You can simply step back and watch what is taking place in Canada right now. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-union-wants-4... Because it is not going anywhere, they had an independent body get involved, their commentary says it all: "The union’s proposals “do not appear realistic for what should be a fairly advanced stage of negotiations. The numerous proposals are not focused and they would result in…

>These same union employees are also fighting "unilateral contract changes" that mandates they return to the office, but did not fight the unilateral contract changes that allowed them to WFH in the first place?

Huh? They fight against contract changes they don't like, and don't fight against contract changes they do like? Sounds pretty crazy to me.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#134

Post by bawolff »

dfxm12 wrote: post #119
fHr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionization is amazing. I do not know why especially people in US are so against this. Did they just gave up and are okay with the big corps fucking them over withouth having any leverage?

I do not know why especially people in US are so against this. I think there's some truth to the old adage that there's a class of Americans, especially represented among the HN crowd that "see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." There are many reasons for the decline of organized labor in the US. Some cultural yeah, but just as much, if not more, legal... "Right t…

Tech industry generally has a shortage of skilled labour. That gives labour a lot of power, which makes unions seem less important. At least when times are good.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#135

Post by bmitc »

hourago wrote: post #43
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

> I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. "Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles" is fraud. If you do not like unions because ONE did something that you do not like , how much do you hate companies were you have thousands of examples of bad…

I described something that literally took place, and the behavior was performed by a union, not me. This isn't propaganda. It is a description of something that happened involving a union. If I am anti anything, it is anti-"institutions that have mismatched incentives and conflicts of interest", and so that involves both corporations and unions, but not all of them. Note that my original comment said very clearly that "unions are not a fix all and can become the same overlords". Your comment that I replied to seemed to imply that unions are a silver bullet that fixes anything wrong with corporation and worker relations, and that is what I was replying to that that is not always the case. There are plenty examples of this.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#136

Post by bmitc »

bmitc wrote: post #39
hourago wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner. Unionization is a great way of solving disputes. Many big corporations need to be counter-weight with some other big organization. To put violence and unions at the same level seems uncalled for.

A lot of unions directly block solving disputes, choosing instead to deny all disputes. I know one union that was perfectly happy letting government workers make sox figures while "working" from home, while they produced objectively zero work over a period of months. These were the type of workers that would keep government equipment after retiring, quitting, or rarely being fired, requiring the government to send of…

Apologies for the phone-based typos. Corrections: sox -> six, you're -> your, and Thune -> the.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#137

Post by HWR_14 »

reidjs wrote: post #82

There's more nuance to this topic than "Company bad! They trick dumb labor into a bad deal!" Money isn't the only form of compensation a job can provide. Give a low level worker a $0.43 cent raise, and they won't give a crap, it's not enough to change anything. But give them an 'employee of the month' medal and a new title, arguably worth much less than $0.43 cents, and they may actually prefer it! It's something for…

You have it exactly backwards. A low level person might get a 6% raise from that $0.43/hr. That's a lot! Someone making six figures on the other hand is getting a sub-1% raise. To say nothing of the use they have for those dollars. That might be the difference between fixing a car or not to a lower level person. To a higher level person it's a new console.

Meanwhile, "employee of the month bagging groceries and promotion to sr. Bagger" doesn't mean much, but a higher level person is likely to value something like a title bump that they use on their resume to get the next job.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#138

Post by wonderwonder »

shepardrtc wrote: post #23

I worked at a university in Florida that did this to me. I was being made to work overtime on a few software projects and making a nice little amount of extra money. Then one day I found out that I was being "promoted" to a manager title. No raise or any extra benefits, but I was no longer allowed to get overtime. It was part of a campus-wide initiative to cut costs. And now that I was a manager I was expected to wor…

I had something similar. I was contracting for a company as a solution architect. Got paid OT for any hours I worked over 45. I was working 75-90 hours a week. Not because I wanted to, that was just the workload. They offered to bring me on full time with benefits. Salary was 40k less and no OT. I declined. Then they said ok but they have to cut my OT. I said fine and never worked a minute over 40 hours a week for the next 6 months before quitting.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#139

Post by dboreham »

This is not actually how the FLSA works folks. There are tests to determine if a given employee is exempt or not and they have nothing to do with their title. So go talk to your local dept of labor and get them to take action against your employer.

Also, some posters here have said that simply working in IT makes the job exempt. Not true.

Source: family member formerly worked in this field.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#140

Post by NegativeK »

Xeoncross wrote: post #65
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about "offering" enough money it's about companies that are deliberately classifying employees as "managers" when they're anything but for the purposes of avoiding having to pay the employees overtime.

It's just semantics, you're not compelled to stay and work for someone who is low-balling you.

Employers can just fire people who falsify time sheets. Or take money from the register.
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