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Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

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131–140 of 294 posts

Re: Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

#132
post #123
post #9

We should have an erlang day on jan 18th

Erlang is about all HN could talk about in a post-SOPA world without risking shutdown.

That is, until someone shares Erlang: the Movie [1], then it is game over.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfKtXYLG78

Re: Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

#134
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN's effectively dead if SOPA passes How so? I'm having trouble recalling offhand anything posted to HN that would cause HN to run into SOPA trouble.

Say someone posts a link to a website that shows a technical description of how to crack some form of DRM, which is something a good portion of the HN audience would be interested in. One of the companies that use that DRM could get HN shut down.

I don't see how. The meat of SOPA is sections 102 and 103. Section 102 only applies to foreign sites so is not applicable.

Section 103 applies to any site, foreign or domestic, that is a site "dedicated to the theft of US property". What it means to be "dedicated to the theft of US property" is defined in 103(a)(1), and can be found here at loc.gov: http://tinyurl.com/3lvuqc4

(I used tinyurl.com because the real URL ends in a colon, and HN seems to have trouble with that).

It certainly doesn't appear on first reading that HN would fall under this. The worst it appears this would do to HN is cause some hassle if content owners filed false notifications that HN had to waste time replying to. However, 103(b)(6) makes knowingly misrepresenting that a site is "dedicated to the theft of US property" in such a notice subject the filer to liability for damages and attorney's fees.

I haven't been through the whole bill, so maybe there is some other section that would put HN at risk?

edit: changed link to higher up in the bill. The link to the specific section was only good for 30 minutes.

Re: Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

#135

I wanted to vote no, because it seems so Pyrrhic, maybe a little gimmicky: "See, we shut down a site you don't use!" But if you're asking people to make a sacrifice you're not willing to make yourself, you're a bad leader, period. I'm not saying HN is the bastion of the tech world. But if we're upvoting the Reddit shutdown (at least I did), and we can't turn around and do it ourselves, well, we're not made of very to…

I'm for shutting it down.... but...

I suspect there is a strong correlation between IE users and people who don't know about SOPA... So maybe HN should "Shutdown" the IE user agent...?

Re: Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

#137
I'm not following SOAP very much, so this would bring some more attention to it for me (I'm not American).

I think it would be important that any blackout actually includes a call to action though, not just a message saying the site is offline for today - it should make it easy to actually do something (email, phone call, whatever) to protest against it.

Re: Poll: Do you think HN should go dark in protest of SOPA?

#138
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say someone posts a link to a website that shows a technical description of how to crack some form of DRM, which is something a good portion of the HN audience would be interested in. One of the companies that use that DRM could get HN shut down.

I don't see how. The meat of SOPA is sections 102 and 103. Section 102 only applies to foreign sites so is not applicable. Section 103 applies to any site, foreign or domestic, that is a site "dedicated to the theft of US property". What it means to be "dedicated to the theft of US property" is defined in 103(a)(1), and can be found here at loc.gov: http://tinyurl.com/3lvuqc4 (I used tinyurl.com because the real URL…

The grammar is exceedingly thick and difficult to parse, but if you look closely, you'll see:

"the U.S.-directed site...enables or facilitates (a violation of USC Title 17, section 501 and section 1201/ title 17; loosely, the copyright infringement code and copyright protection circumvention code)"

Basically, what this means is that if the core functionality of your site even enables copyright infringment (by, say, submitting links to infringing content, or posting copyrighted content in comment threads like this one), the site is an infringing site. The language doesn't require that you be dedicated to copyright infringement. All it requires is that your core functionality enable it. HN, by any stretch of the imagination, falls under that category. While you and I look at that and say "Oh, that's obviously not meant to target HN", the law doesn't work that way. The language says "if you have a comment box, you're at risk of being labeled an "Internet site is dedicated to theft of U.S. property".

Additionally, you may be labeled "infringing" if you take "deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability" of copyright infringement; that is, if you make the deliberate decision that it's not cost-effective to screen every comment posted to your site, then you may be painted as "dedicated to theft".

Because I can post "46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2" on Hacker News, it can be argued that its core functionality enables violations of US Code Section 1202, Title 17, and therefore, under SOPA, Hacker News would legally be guilty of being a "Internet site is dedicated to theft of U.S. property".

The "qualifying plaintiff" portions basically give the copyright holders the right to pull the trigger on most any site on which their content shows up on, even if the site isn't "dedicated" to infringement, just so long as the site's core functionality makes it possible to infringe.

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