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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#131

Post by Insanity »

ntr-- wrote: post #83

> Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the cus…

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#132

Post by [deleted] »

purpleblue wrote: post #124
zzzeek wrote: post #71

I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as t…

No. Workers should be paid a fair wage and all prices should be transparent. As well, different types of work deserve different types of pay. End of story. Your "oh these poor, hopeless blue collar workers that desperately need our help" is just your own classism, looking down on them and making you feel better about yourself by thinking you're helping them survive, like small swimmer fish eating the leftover from th…

[deleted]

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#133

Post by tptacek »

godelski wrote: post #108
Larrikin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of restaurants, barber shops, delivery services, all over the world in first world and developing countries indicates it's possible to run a business successfully without relying on charity or variable pricing models.

To specifically counter Tp's claims, I think we should note that these services also have plenty of friendly relationships between employees and customers.

That's explicitly part of the idea.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#134

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

plantwallshoe wrote: post #8

I’ve implemented a personal policy to make it easier for myself and reduce bias: Full waiter experience (seated, handed menu, food brought to table, plate cleared) gets 20%. If the level of service is less than that, the percentage starts to go down proportionally. Counter service is flat-rate $1 per person served. This is the same every time regardless of quality of service (unless something truly malicious happens,…

> Full waiter experience (seated, handed menu, food brought to table, plate cleared) gets 20%.

I don't understand this. Why do you Americans tip for this? Isn't being seated, handed a menu, food brought to the table, and plates being cleared part of a waiter's job?

Why does the customer have to 'reward' waiters for doing 'a good job'?

Why do restaurants not just drop a flat 10% service/cover charge (it's 10% where I am) and be done with it?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#135

Post by godelski »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

> For a restaurant to pay a server what they make now ($150-$300/night tips), their labor cost would be through the roof and they would have to raise the price of the food.

Is that every night or just weekends? Because everyone I've known that has cleared that kind of money has only done so on weekends (Friday/Saturday), and works at higher end or very popular restaurants. I agree that an extra $15-$30/hr would be an insane increase, but if that is spread out over the other 5 days a week then this is much closer to a $3-$6/hr increase. Large, but not obtuse considering a server is probably serving many meals an hour on average. I wouldn't expect food prices to go up very much to cover such a change. As a customer I'd be far happier with that version too. To be clear, I'm against abolishing tips, I just don't think it should be the social expectation for an average establishment.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#136

Post by jjav »

boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

> Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job?

Are we to pretend all supermarket checkout clerks do an equally good job? No, but we don't tip them. They get paid a wage which is bundled into the price of every item I buy at the store. Same as every other cost of business like their insurance, electric bill, etc.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#137

Post by DrThunder »

notfromhere wrote: post #111
DrThunder wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a win for the consumer. You don't have to tip but if they raise the wages you'll be paying more for the same service and same product.

"We won't raise your wage, we'll just let you beg for it instead"

Who is you? Is there someone out there requiring Starbucks workers that make minimum wage (or higher in many cases) to stay at that job and ask for tips? Are you considering providing good customer service begging for a wage? I'm confused here.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#138

Post by undersuit »

pirate787 wrote: post #19
exabrial wrote: post #2

Yes. If you business wants to collect a "tip" up front, before services rendered, it's not a tip (Doordash, Instacart, etc). If 100% of the proceeds don't get straight to the employees, but some end up in the pocket of the business, it's not a tip. This last one is going to be to hear, but if you pay your employees below mimimum wage and allow for tips to make up the difference, well..... Always tip, in cash, direct…

I worry if I don't tip, they will vandalize my food. It's a hostage situation. I limit my use of the services because of it.

But you have no guarantee that your food won't be vandalized anyways when you tip before service. The bribe has no teeth. You're going to demand a refund if you notice the food has been damaged regardless if you tipped before or after.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#139

Post by q845712 »

godelski wrote: post #50
adam_arthur wrote: post #6

Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer w…

Tipping at best is a form of bribery and at worst a feudal practice of wealth transfer. I tip because it is the social norm (and bribery: don't want my food messed with), but I think we can also acknowledge that this practice is weird and has a shaky history.

I think tipping at its very best is an opportunity to give a stranger a small gift. I recognize your points -- sometimes it feels like an obligated payment and probably in nearly all cases the capital owning class could and/or should contribute more, but i think you're excluding some optional perspectives. Sometimes I just want to help someone have a nice day by giving them something they didn't expect, like a generous tip. The escalation of niceness and virtue signalling seems right now to be creating an expectation of that generosity, which undermines it, since it can feel non-optional, but sometimes it's still just a nice thing one human can do to recognize another human.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#140

Post by asdff »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

Tipping for service is a little different than the tipping thats been getting out of control imo. Places are signing up for these square readers and whatever else is sold to small businesses to scan a credit card, and the default settings seem to be to add a tip. These would be jobs where the worker would never expect a tip normally, maybe a tip jar with a buck or two in it a shift if that. Plus you are expected to tip before you even get whatever service when you do it at point of sale like this, unlike the traditional restaurant approach where you tip at the very end of the meal even after you've closed out the rest of the bill.
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