And we're supposed to believe that universal, single payer health care is inefficient and wasteful?
The anatomy of a ripoff
131–140 of 189 posts
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#132My wife recently had some tests done. Hospital's receptionist forgot to add insurance information to wife's profile, so accordingly to hospital's records she was uninsured. Month later we receive bill for ~$1,400. After quick googling we find that if she would go to any local hospital and pay up front with cash, it would cost her maximum ~$400. Obviously, she went back to hospital to find out what's wrong with them (…
hospital owned by insurance company, so it is very wrong Wait what? How on earth is that allowed to happen!
Kaiser Permanente has both insurance subsidiaries and hospitals. I can't imagine this is unique.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#133Further obfuscation on the part of the medical industry to hide the cost of covering the uninsured. Hospitals need reimbursement, insurance only wants to pay for your procedures, not the cost of others receiving treatment without insurance. Taxed as single payer or taxed as hidden costs, anyone with insurance is being taxed for those without insurance. At least with single payer, you know those receiving treatment ar…
Absolutely. Cost-shifting is why philosophical discussions about whether the US should have private insurance or socialized medicine (or even some hybrid) are pointless. Our society has long since decided that doctors shouldn't let people die in the gutter and that they shouldn't be then themselves forced into poverty for serving society's will. So everyone who pays, whenever they pay, pays more to cover the rest.
So the whole question of whether we should pay is a charade. We do pay and if Americans were remotely willing to let people die in the gutter, there would already be people dying in the gutter.
People might as well be arguing about whether or not we ought to live on Mars next year. [2]
[1] Many young people in the US spend significant amounts of time uninsured. Many families will also fall in and out of coverage as household members switch jobs, as marital statuses change, etc. Most of us make largely the same decisions, but by dumb luck alone some will acquire an illness or be involved in an accident during a period of non-coverage and be, if not bankrupted outright, seriously financially penalized for the grand sin of having only been as conservative and careful as everyone else.
[2] Which is to say: a question that isn't wrong to discuss, but one that's irrelevant to any practical discussion about housing costs.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because you have that amount in HSA. That is the entire point of the high deductible.
Sounds like it's still your money being spent. Do poor Americans typically have HSAs? Could people afford multiple hits? Where does the money come from after the HSA has run out?
Of course its still your money being spent (though you get some tax benefits).
People should be able to afford one deductible per year. Not sure what you mean by multiple hits.
I agree with yummyfajitas, but bottom line is, you should only get a high deductible plan if you can afford it. Thinking about a 5k bill as you head to the ER shouldn't be a problem then. If you can't afford it, d;not get it.
Of course, therein lies the problem: people who can't afford it choose it because its the cheapest. Its a problem, but banning high deductible plans for everyone is certainly NOT the solution.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#135My wife is the manager of budget and reimbursement at a hospital, and from many conversations with her, I can imagine that this article is accurate. However, if I were writing this, I would have given greater emphasis to the effect that Medicare has on these problems. The article does mention that Medicare typically pays fees that are below actual cost for the procedures, and that hospitals must therefore increase ch…
> Medical care is the most highly regulated industry in the economy, and so nothing you see happening is going to bear very much resemblance to reality. This is a pretty big logical jump. I'm American, but have been living in the Netherlands for a while. Health care is probably more regulated here than in the US, yet in all of the ER visits I've experienced (myself or friends/family) I've never seen bills like that.…
"You can't jump half-way across a gorge". Letting it be free market wouldn't work nearly as badly as most people expect. "Socializing" medicine and making it a fully planned section of the economy wouldn't work nearly as badly as most people expect.
Half-assing it between the two will work far worse than most people expect.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#136This article only scratches the surface of how messed up our health care system is. I'd be shocked if either hospital system was able to figure out how much money the writer's son actually cost the hospital... the organizations I've worked for take at least a year to calculate cost (if they ever successfully do it), making (as CWuestefeld said) many of their other calculations come largely from guesses. Sometimes tha…
Why why why do they not know how much things cost them?
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#137Every time I read about the US health-care system it amazes me more (in a negative way). The point that I find worrying the most is, that it is impossible to figure out the costs before you get treatment. Also I am surprised, that there are no prenegotiated rates for treatment-procedures. The way it works in Germany is, that there is a catalog which contains all the standard procedures and a price that can be charged…
This is not an administrative nightmare for doctors. They all have the software, put the insurance card in the slot, check the right cases and everything is immediately done. The real nightmare for doctors is the private insurances because they need to manage the invoicing themselves. But they get more money out of the privately insured, so they are doing it happily.
If you take the time to discuss with doctors (I have several friends who are doctors in Germany and my family is a doctor family in France) their life is really nice. Way more relaxed than any other engineer working for a company under standard pressure. The only ones who are pushed like any other worker in a company are the ones in hospitals.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#138I could never understand why there's such a huge financial difference in the way emergencies that threaten human lives are dealt with in the US. You never expect a huge bill from the fire department or the police department should you require their urgent help. How is ER different?
The US has socialized fire fighting and policing. We have decided not to socialize medicine.
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#139Bottom line is that if you're middle class and don't have health insurance, a serious accident could bankrupt you. The system was designed with the idea that you don't exist, and would never actually pay the rack rates that hospitals charge. Planet Money had some good coverage of the joke that is medical billing a couple of years ago: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/07/06/128338526/ex-ambul... http://www.npr.org/…
I don't understand why an uninsured patient who pays out of pocket can not dispute the charges and prove that the price has been fraudulently inflated due to "cost shifting".
Re: The anatomy of a ripoff
#140This contains a detailed explanation of why costs are so high:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/how-amer...