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Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

nco.ncep.noaa.gov

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Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#131

Post by nhtsamera »

pookha wrote: post #94
acdha wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NOTAM system was apparently running on old SPARC hardware so I’d easily believe that they haven’t been given enough budget to hire engineers and are basically keeping the lights on. One peril of the government funding model is that it’s effective at shoveling money to contracting companies but not having skilled oversight, so you tend to see lots of big projects which founder under their own weight.

NOTAM could be run from a pre-historic Toshiba mainframe. it's static. Doesn't need billions in funding.

It's static, until a contractor ignores the post-it note on their monitor that says, "IMPORTANT: ALWAYS add an extra newline BEFORE saving the file".

Once that happens, you have to hope that your backups work - why bother having disaster recovery drills for a static system?

Once you realize that your backups are hosed, you may experience a creeping suspicion that software is never truly static when human operators are involved.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#132

Post by Tool_of_Society »

vaidhy wrote: post #102
drstewart wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need me to Google Medicare budget and defense budget for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) >In 2020, US federal government spending on Medicare was $776.2 billion.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De... >Annual budget US$721.5 billion (FY2020)[2] Hopefully, I won't need a citation that $776 > $721

So, US spends approximately $12,000 per beneficiary per year. Given the cost of medical expenses, this does not seem too large..

Well the USA does spend the most per capita on health care.

Meanwhile other first world nations pay about half that and get mostly better results...

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#133

Post by koofdoof »

flandish wrote: post #47

Just gotta ask: Southwest, NOTAM, and now this… Is some group pen-testing?

Could just as easily be a bias in reporting given the interest in other flight related issues lately. Previously unremarkable outages like this can suddenly become newsworthy if other current events seem to give them context. Once an issue is proven to draw clicks headlines will go back to that well any chance they get.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#134

Post by [deleted] »

shmatt wrote: post #25
SamPatt wrote: post #15

Serious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?

This is the conservative playbook. Cut funding until the entity can't run properly, then yell JEEZ GUYS YOU REALLY SUCK wHY DON'T WE SHUT YOU DOWN The previous president significantly cut the FAA's budget, maybe we're just seeing now how that affects us in the long term

[deleted]

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#135

Post by snuxoll »

repiret wrote: post #126
zackbloom wrote: post #12

Unlike the NOTAM outage, a METAR outage will and should actually affect flights. Without weather at your destination it becomes impossible to know if it’s safe to land there. The forecasts (TAF) are actually used more in flight planning, but actual weather is very valuable while enroute, when not close enough to hear weather over the radio from the destination airport.

To add some nuance to what other commenters have said, 95%+ of all NOTAMs are useless, telling you about grass that might be mowed, animals that might be present, temporary "obstacles" that you could only hit if you were flying both dangerously and illegally, correcting immaterial typos in the charts, or updates to dubiously helpful information published in the charts (number of hotels in the surrounding area). Other…

> But make no mistake, the volume of spam NOTAMs combined with the lack of an easy way for a pilot to quickly sort for important NOTAMs makes us all less safe.

The system is in desperate need of some modernization, no argument there. The fact that there isn't a simple criticality filed with them that makes it easy to see what will actually impact flight planning (airspace closure / runway closure vs stupid chart updates) is insane.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#136

Post by w10-1 »

The outage seems to be in receiving reports from weather stations (primarily airports).

When arriving at an airport, a pilot is required to confirm they have the latest METAR information for the site. It's presumed negligence when pilots don't know the weather. This is because weather is the #1 environmental factor in accidents.

But the actual use of weather in flying (esp. for commercial flights) is not via METAR but via in-cockpit radar. This is an FAA-sponsored service, but it's unclear if that's affected.

So it seems to be more administrative than safety, but just as disabling.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#137

Post by JonathonW »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #114
strictnein wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Not knowing the atmospheric pressure can lead to planes crashing, especially if it's inclement weather.

Wouldn't each airport measure and report the local weather anyways?

Each airport does measure and report the local weather-- that's where METAR data comes from. And busier airports broadcast that data locally, via ATIS or D-ATIS, for pilots in the immediate vicinity to use (either on the ground or on approach to the airport).

That doesn't help a pilot plan ahead for conditions on their route or at their destination, though-- that's where METARs come in.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#138

Post by xxpor »

w10-1 wrote: post #136

The outage seems to be in receiving reports from weather stations (primarily airports). When arriving at an airport, a pilot is required to confirm they have the latest METAR information for the site. It's presumed negligence when pilots don't know the weather. This is because weather is the #1 environmental factor in accidents. But the actual use of weather in flying (esp. for commercial flights) is not via METAR bu…

Does in cockpit radar actually get you on the ground pressure?

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#139

Post by snuxoll »

bee_rider wrote: post #39
brootstrap wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind shear is easy. feel the wind on your face, then jump as high as possible and feel the wind up there.

Oh, so that’s what turbulence is.

Wind shear is one of many various causes of turbulence in aviation. Certainly a common one, however.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#140

Post by mbreese »

snuxoll wrote: post #135
repiret wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add some nuance to what other commenters have said, 95%+ of all NOTAMs are useless, telling you about grass that might be mowed, animals that might be present, temporary "obstacles" that you could only hit if you were flying both dangerously and illegally, correcting immaterial typos in the charts, or updates to dubiously helpful information published in the charts (number of hotels in the surrounding area). Other…

> But make no mistake, the volume of spam NOTAMs combined with the lack of an easy way for a pilot to quickly sort for important NOTAMs makes us all less safe. The system is in desperate need of some modernization, no argument there. The fact that there isn't a simple criticality filed with them that makes it easy to see what will actually impact flight planning (airspace closure / runway closure vs stupid chart upda…

The idea is probably that is you included a criticality flag, pilots would ignore low priority notices and potentially miss something (like grass being mowed at the time they plan on landing) that could affect them, but is otherwise immaterial for most others.

I can’t say one way or the other, as I’m not a pilot, but that’s the argument I’d make to keep the system w/o priority levels.

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