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Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

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Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#131

Post by fleddr »

LarryMullins wrote: post #73
fleddr wrote: post #37

Had any of this harm been physical, everybody would be cheering to combat it. But because it's mental, it's "not real", right? Behavioral scientists can plot any metric against the last decade and it spectacularly deviates from what came before it, in a bad way. A seismic shift. It's a problem. A massively complicated problem where regulation will be tricky. For the record, even Zuckerberg himself has practically beg…

> even Zuckerberg himself has practically begged for regulation in response to issues affecting teen girls specifically. I recall this being criticized as Zuckerberg cynically trying to create an anti-competitive regulatory moat around Facebook. Seems plausible to me, I have a hard time believing that Zuck has a single sincere and benevolent bone in his body. But even if he has cynical motivations for proposing it, t…

With some (pending) regulation, there's indeed the risk that they require such advanced tech that only Big Tech can comply. I don't know if that is the case here.

I see Zuckerberg as a sociopath in a pressure cooker, a highly competitive environment where each decision has an outsized impact. For sure he morally has a piss poor track record, but I still don't think of people like him as villain.

I don't think he gets up in the morning and thinks "how can I ruin the mental health of teenage girls today"? It's possible that he wants to do the right thing, or a neutral thing, or really does want industry wide clarity on this matter.

The way I think of Zuckerberg, Bezos, and Musk is that it's a system issue. You can play evil billionaire whack-a-mole but new ones will pop up.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#132

Post by bathtub365 »

roody15 wrote: post #130
finnh wrote: post #62

Seattle Public Schools has seen enrollment drop 30% (!!!) over the past couple years because it is an utter shambles [0]. (correction: many schools have that level of decline or higher, but the decline district-wide is much lower). Cancelling as many advanced classes as possible, without grandfathering, so (eg) my two sons were both forced to repeat a year of math when they cancellled year-up math. An administration…

Sadly this what happens with the “equity” push is public schools. There is no way to have “equalized” outcomes without dumbing down the content. This means less advanced courses. It’s sad because somehow the idea of equal opportunity has been replaced with equalized outcomes in education.

Is this actually due to the “equity” push? The article linked by the parent points to staffing issues during the pandemic and the issue you point to isn’t mentioned.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#133

Post by TMWNN »

sien wrote: post #65

Teenagers have changed. There are a load of interesting stats about what has changed. From 1994 to now. Percent with a driver's licence has gone from 84.7% to 72.7%, tried alcohol fro 81% to 66.1%, gone on dates from 83% to 58% and had a job from 71.7% to 55% https://twitter.com/AlecStapp/status/1611500829441138688 Maybe less dates and less independence from adults is what is driving up depression. But it might be ha…

>had a job from 71.7% to 55%

Middle-aged immigrants (both illegal and legal aliens) have taken many jobs that teenagers held in the past, food preparers and deliverers at restaurants being a notable example.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#134

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

kube-system wrote: post #102
finnh wrote: post #62

Seattle Public Schools has seen enrollment drop 30% (!!!) over the past couple years because it is an utter shambles [0]. (correction: many schools have that level of decline or higher, but the decline district-wide is much lower). Cancelling as many advanced classes as possible, without grandfathering, so (eg) my two sons were both forced to repeat a year of math when they cancellled year-up math. An administration…

Maybe the dopamine addictions that many of these kids experience are the reason they’re bored with school. Maybe they’re a contributing reason that remote learning was ineffective. When I was a kid, going to school was the social medium. Even the kids who skipped class physically came to school to meet up. Now that we’ve removed that incentive for attendance, no wonder kids don’t show up.

I still hated every minute of school lessons in school, even without social medias st the time. I know it's a one off, but boring people for 6 hours per day in high school is bad. All I wanted to do was stop being there for 6 hours.

I'm pretty sure I hit depression due to that, but was never diagnosed

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#135

Post by KyeRussell »

tempsy wrote: post #119
LarryMullins wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though I do agree that if school districts actually cared enough today they should start by banning social media use on school premises and more aggressively monitor phone usage during class. AFAIK they do, but it is extremely challenging for teachers. Phone use can be very discrete, "aggressively monitoring phone usage" just isn't practical. And when teachers do confiscate phones the backlash against them is frequ…

Yeah that’s not what I mean. I mean make it a policy to not allow people to have their phones out in class. You can also block certain sites on school WiFi networks. I’m sure some schools already have something like this already. I don’t mean implement body searches.

This didn’t even work 10 years ago and it certainly won’t work now. A typical Seattle kids data plan is probably better than the school WiFi anyway.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#136

Post by huitzitziltzin »

DueDilligence wrote: post #46
huitzitziltzin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a specific law that these firms are supposed to have violated? (Does there need to be? I am not a lawyer.) Does the school district have standing to sue on behalf of the students? (Is the injury that they pay more for mental health services for students?) I’m genuinely curious. There’s a surface analogy to the cases against opioid manufacturers and distributors, but those are controlled substances whereas Yo…

.. I appended above and addressed what you are asking.

This seems like the most likely section, though I am not a lawyer:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=7.48.120

If so, one issue this might turn on is the establishment of a causal link between something these firms are doing and a negative health impact.

That’s going to be extremely difficult to establish and is far, far from established. I’m not unsympathetic to this case but I am not that optimistic.

Happy to hear a legal perspective though.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#137

Post by b1ue64 »

tempsy wrote: post #103
finnh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media is awful and terrible; no argument there. But SPS has much larger problems to address internally before tackling this broader societal issue.

You can do two things at once.

You can't do them well if you're incompetent.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#138

Post by brianwawok »

LarryMullins wrote: post #125
idopmstuff wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gym teachers telling kids not to have premarital sex or smoke drugs isn't teaching them. You can teach kids how condoms work and that STDs stay with them for life. You can teach kids that drugs these days can be laced with fentanyl and how to acquire and use fentanyl test strips. Those things won't stop kids from having sex or doing drugs, but they can certainly and do mitigate some of the harm. You can take a simila…

Teach kids all you like, however you like, they're not going to stop using social media on their own. It's a digital drug engineered to be addictive, and the kids are already hooked.

Parents control if they get a phone till 18. Generally the more upper class the parent I know, the later they give their kids access.

It’s not like kids are born with an iPhone glued to their hand.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#139

Post by vouaobrasil »

shaftoe wrote: post #118
vouaobrasil wrote: post #78

I fully support this lawsuit, and I also fully support society taking a stand against algorithmic social media and platforms like YouTube. Moreover, I am saying this as a content creator myself who makes money! The effects of algorithms trained to make the mind addicted are too subtle and too powerful to leave it to individuals to make their own choices about a healthy level of social media use. Moreover, most people…

"The effects of [X] are too subtle and too powerful to leave it to individuals to make their own choices about a healthy level of [X]. Moreover, most people already agree that [X] are not really healthy." I wholeheartedly disagree with the type of argument you are making.

A lot of people would. A lot of people like the idea that everyone should be able to make a free choice without regulation. No doubt my point of view is contentious and many people don't like it...not surprised.

That's true of society among many issues. Some people also disagree with disincentives on smoking such as mandatory labels on cigarette packages (which we have in my country at least).

Most societies control all sorts of things that are bad for the majority such as murder, guns, cocaine, switchblades, assault weapons, etc. I believe social media and AI should be on that list also. I get that you don't agree with that and I respect that.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#140

Post by brianwawok »

bathtub365 wrote: post #132
roody15 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly this what happens with the “equity” push is public schools. There is no way to have “equalized” outcomes without dumbing down the content. This means less advanced courses. It’s sad because somehow the idea of equal opportunity has been replaced with equalized outcomes in education.

Is this actually due to the “equity” push? The article linked by the parent points to staffing issues during the pandemic and the issue you point to isn’t mentioned.

You need to read between the lines.

No child left behind and similar punishes schools that don’t get their lowest students up to a certain test score. It does not mandate or encourage or anything else advanced classes. So when a budget cut happens, guess where the cut happens?

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