Slightly off topic, but is there a service that would quote out a new roof + solar install? We're waiting on doing solar until we need a new roof as ours is ~9-10 years old, and not near EOL.
Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
131–140 of 510 posts
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why a Powerwall?
Not sure, that’s just the way the company wrote up the bid. The Powerwall portion was around $16k I think.
I know someone who did 5000W system for around 15,000 in 2018.
Battert/Powerwalls let the solar work when the power goes out. (the dc to ac converters use the 60hz out of the grid to sync. There is no shutoff to the grid so for safety reasons her system shuts down when the power is out).
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#133Weird question and probably rare but what happens if solar array is hit by lighting? Are they insured? Do they get damaged? Does the inverter/batteries get damaged or is there likely a circuit breaker?
> Are they insured?
You are better off if you add them to your already existing coverage for your roof. So probably yes.
> Do they get damaged?
You typically don't expect trees to fall onto your solar panels. So where should any damage come from?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#134Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
Does that also apply if you're not sending surplus energy back into the grid?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#135>Realizing that the solar company was in quite the pickle insofar as repossessing the panels would require costly legal actions on top of paying people to take out the system, I just waited on the payment. They would contact me periodically asking me to make payment and offering to help me get approved for a new loan. But I just ignored all of that. Seems pretty unethical tbh. The solar company delivered, but now thi…
They took 7 months to install the panels. I'm sure times during all that the OP thought if they forgot about him, called them to ask for a installation date, etc.
As a way to curb any thought about undue wait time, the company made a contract guaranteeing installation between 6 month after signing. They didn't comply and the loan lapsed. Now the company needed to negotiate a new contract with OP or go for the legal route. There is nothing unethical about this.
The company had everything to lose going the the legal option, with all the long terms procedures, paying money for a pay back that may never come. They are probably grateful that OP just asked for a discount instead.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#136This was built by a solar company, not the author directly, but the actual parts making up this system are pretty damned cheap. ~$4200 in panels + $2000 inverter plus additional hardware (mounting, cables, fasteners). Then labor costs. Net output was 10,894 kWh, inline with a 20 year estimate of 193,545 kWh. If we just divide $6200/193545kWh (ignoring additional costs!!) that'd be $0.032/kWh. One other data-point: da…
> One other data-point: daily output averaged to 29.8 kWh, from this 7.56kWh array.
This is useful information that is surprisingly hard to find: if I install panels with a nameplate rating of x kW, how many kWh will I generate per day? In Bruenig's case the multiplier is just less than 4x.
The linked page provides a widely available map for "Peak Sun Hours" (defined as average hours per day greater than 1000 W/m^2 of sunlight), but it's not immediately clear how this relates to the multiple. In theory, you could figure out the efficiency of the panels and their area, but this still doesn't account for the actual curve of sunlight intensity.
Bruenig is (I think) in Connecticut, which according to the map has 4.2 Peak Sun Hours, which is only a little greater the the measured rated kW to kWh multiplier. Is it safe to assume that the "Peak Sun Hours" is always slightly more than the multiplier? Or is there a more better map somewhere that shows this conversion directly?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#137> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
7-10 years to break even. If the panels last 15 years you'll see a net return of $21,416 on investment of $18,888. If they last 25 years, that net return grows to $48,186. In either case it works out to an annual rate of return of 5%, assuming electricity prices stay the same (BIG ASSUMPTION) and also assuming the weather doesn't change to get cloudier or more violent (also a big assumption).
Is net return all that matters? Seems like with increasing heat waves, power outages etc, being able to generate and store your own electricity has value from a resiliency standpoint.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…
Perhaps instead of being angry that people are using taxes that come from the working class, instead you should ask why the wealthy aren't paying their share of the taxes? And nobody pays for anything with inflation. That's not how inflation works.
> instead you should ask why the wealthy aren't paying their share of the taxes?
And what is the right share that the wealthy should pay, and how wealthy should one be to be paying that amount? I'm assuming it's some level of wealth above yours.
About half of the US doesn't pay any federal income tax, and a little over a quarter pays no net federal taxes at all, including payroll taxes. The labor force participation rate hit its peak in the 90s and has been steadily decreasing since then, with the last reading at 62.1%. Perhaps you should ask why two-fifths of adults aren't doing their share of the labor?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#139Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
If there’s no net-zero metering, aren’t they incentivizing people to be completely disconnected from the grid, or at least not incentivizing them to be connected? (Which is bad for the grid.) Why would I fuck around with the utility at all if I’m installing enough solar/battery to power my needs?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#140I'm always surprised about the price of solar panels in the US, I think we paid about €1.2/W. It's not like labor is cheap in Belgium.
It varies. A lot of solar installers will push the benefits of microinverters or optimisers, because they can make your system cope better with partial shading or panel failure. However, the microinverters or optimisers are expensive, and can easily double the cost of the system. They also have dubious merit, because if you design your system properly in the first place it will cope with partial shading and panel fai…
Hmm, my parents also looked into micro inverters and while they were more expensive it still was far from this price.