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GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

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Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#131

Post by allarm »

lynx23 wrote: post #92
latency-guy2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people don't know what ^X means - it's Linux, most tools are very specific of flags and the order in which you put them on the command line. So is nano saying - SHIFT-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - SHIFT-[6](^)-x - CTRL-[6](^)-SHIFT-X - CTRL-[6](^)-x All I see is '^X', on my keyboard '^' is on 6. Why the hell isn't this working? Little does little Sally know that this is a UNIXism, carat means 'CTRL', X is really just 'x' - b…

Is there a particular reason why you seem to imply that little knowledge == female? Sometimes the meme of "we need to mention girls more" works in unexpected directions if people are not careful.

Sally is a quranic boy and girl name. Is there any particular reason why you seem to imply that the the comment above mentioned a female? There’s no indication of gender.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#132

Post by Aperocky »

p-e-w wrote: post #129
Aperocky wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there's no convincing you then. The pros of modal editing is well documented, and I'm not even arguing about the superiority of vim over the likes of emacs. People who believe using cursor to select, move, copy stuff are better than modal editing, even after all the argument, is probably not going to be swayed ever. As an almost pure vim user, I know how my own speed are significantly improved ever since I adopt…

> The pros of modal editing is well documented Finally! Someone who knows where that elusive data is hidden that actually shows why modal editing is better. Wait, did you forget to link to the study?

Like I said, there's no convincing you.

On previous tens of discussion surely someone has came up with something, only for you to dismiss it as gimmicky. I am not going to spend much effort on a lost cause, but quick googling came up with this blog: https://eli-rodriguez.com/en/posts/modal-editing-the-superio...

Enjoy moving your cursor around when you edit text, but welcome to the club if I am wrong and you can be convinced.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#133

Post by Yizahi »

alkonaut wrote: post #69
dijit wrote: post #5

There was a time (2006?) when I was getting into linux. I was a big microsofty, due to comfort mostly, and I was shamed into trying Linux. Like most people I went Ubuntu first, but wifi drivers at the time were lacking, and nvidia of yore was certainly not better than nvidia of now. Suffice it to say: I spent a lot of time in the terminal trying to fix things. Nano was my tool of choice because: honestly the initial…

I guess it depends on how you use the system. I have no intention of ever using a Linux as my “main” system. I’m always a visitor on a strange foreign system. I hold my nose, go in, do whatever dirty deed must be done to get it working again. Usually it’s in some docker image, or an old pi used in my closet, maybe a router, or a cloud vm. But regardless it’s never “home”. I don’t have a personal user, I don’t have a…

Exactly this. That's why I often read comments like "just install zsh it's so good", or "I have this vim config with plugins and everything works as I expect" and have to react - "ok, good for you, but I have to use fresh installs of linux exclusively, often embedded, and I just pray it's not a busybox, so only defaults for me forever". Learning vim to edit a few lines a week on some remote host, because they didn't bother to include nano is ugh... Bad.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#134

Post by giancarlostoro »

p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

Personally, I'd prefer if "ne" was the default, or similar. I love nano, I've installed it many times just so I can do quick one line edits, since I have the muscle memory for nano, but something like "ne" uses standard key bindings that users of other OS' are used to like ctrl + s which some Linux neckbeards will scoff at, but you gotta understand, there is no benefit to force emacs, vim or nano on someone, other than "it forces them to read a manual" alternatively, it might also force them to never use Linux again, which is the opposite of what we all collectively want.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#135

Post by smarkov »

dijit wrote: post #5

There was a time (2006?) when I was getting into linux. I was a big microsofty, due to comfort mostly, and I was shamed into trying Linux. Like most people I went Ubuntu first, but wifi drivers at the time were lacking, and nvidia of yore was certainly not better than nvidia of now. Suffice it to say: I spent a lot of time in the terminal trying to fix things. Nano was my tool of choice because: honestly the initial…

> the initial learning curve of linux and a modal text editor was far too much

> I feel like nano shipping as the default editor is a step-back

Not sure why you'd say it's a step back after giving a very valid reason for why it's a step forward.

Editing configuration files as a beginner can be frustrating on its own. The added friction of fighting with your editor when you just want to change a single line is not something I wanted to deal with.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#136

Post by giancarlostoro »

elsjaako wrote: post #87
p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

I'm an enthousiastic vim user. I think everyone who spends a lot if time editing text and who doesn't use vim (or similar) is probably missing out (including the author of this article). I think vim is really good. But I 100% agree that vim is a stupid default. In almost every context it's going to confuse more people than it makes happy.

Which vim? I prefer neovim personally, but it is not my default editor. I want JetBrains to get off their butts and implement first-party support for Neovim. They would be able to fully ditch their awful vim emulator, and I'm honestly astounded they still have not done a neovim first party plugin yet, or anyone for that matter (last I looked anyway). It would solidify vim for me permanently, being able to pop it into an IDE, and going to a command line and having the same editing experiences (minus IDE witchcraft right).

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#137

Post by giancarlostoro »

pjmlp wrote: post #99
elsjaako wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an enthousiastic vim user. I think everyone who spends a lot if time editing text and who doesn't use vim (or similar) is probably missing out (including the author of this article). I think vim is really good. But I 100% agree that vim is a stupid default. In almost every context it's going to confuse more people than it makes happy.

I have used VI in and out since introduced to it on Xenix in 1993. Definitely not missing out.

Neovim is a different beast than vi or vim, definitely suggest looking into it. It's insanely capable, and if major IDE's invested time into supporting it, you wouldn't need to ever choose between Neovim or an IDE, you could just use both together. I think currently VS Code is the only editor that supports Neovim properly, there might be others though.

The neat benefit is you get all the editors own plugins + all of Neovims plugins.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#138

Post by shiomiru »

mickeyp wrote: post #35
sfx77 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing. I want to hang a picture.

That is why you use Emacs. It has `M-x picture-mode` and its successor, `M-x artist-mode'.

Or stay inside vi, and just filter your picture through the standard unix tool for hanging pictures.

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#139

Post by blackbear_ »

p-e-w wrote: post #102
Havoc wrote: post #58

For people picking up linux for the first time that initial impression is crucial. Dropping people like that into an editor that requires you to somehow know ":q!" is the answer is utterly insane. Same with beginner tutorials using vi. It's straight up bad for linux adoption even if technically superior. Anyone that is a vi fan likely has the skillset to install it themselves - the reverse is not always true.

> It's straight up bad for linux adoption even if technically superior. I think the idea that Vim is "technically superior" should be challenged as well. I've watched, and participated in, dozens of discussions on text editors, and have never been shown a concrete piece of scientific evidence demonstrating Vim's claimed superiority according to any real-world metric. All we have are artificial comparisons where it ta…

> have never been shown a concrete piece of scientific evidence demonstrating Vim's claimed superiority according to any real-world metric

I wonder if you've ever seen scientific evidence of the contrary? Or any kind of scientific evidence on this matter?

If not, it seems that you're just using this as an excuse to rationalize your own prejudice, and the counter-argument is really easy: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (in this case, or vim's advantages)

Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice (2021)

#140

Post by saagarjha »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #134
p-e-w wrote: post #39

There is a very simple, end-of-discussion type argument why shipping Vim as the default editor is a terrible idea: Because its user interface differs significantly from how every other program on the system works. You can have all kinds of fruitful or fruitless debates about whether there is some deeper sense in which Vim is a "superior" editor, but there is no sensible reason for it to be the default, ever. Conventi…

Personally, I'd prefer if "ne" was the default, or similar. I love nano, I've installed it many times just so I can do quick one line edits, since I have the muscle memory for nano, but something like "ne" uses standard key bindings that users of other OS' are used to like ctrl + s which some Linux neckbeards will scoff at, but you gotta understand, there is no benefit to force emacs, vim or nano on someone, other th…

nano also supports ^S.
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