Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

thenewatlantis.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 147 posts

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#131

Post by htag »

37 wrote: post #86
htag wrote: post #4

> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own members that people are being driven to euthanasia by credit card debt, poor housing, and difficulties getting medical care. Did I miss the actual concrete evidence this is being purposefully being used to reduce certain populations?

Not sure if I understand, but the article gives a number of examples, such as: > Mary knows that she could control her pain if she could take vitamin pills, eat a special diet, and go to physiotherapy. She can’t afford it. “Mary identifies poverty as the driver of her MAID request,” Gibb-Carsley writes on a slide accompanying her talk, emphasizing the. “She does not want to die, but she’s suffering terribly and she’s…

The question I was trying to ask is.

1. Are people in poverty or with mental illness more likely to choose MAID on their own.

or

2. Are there people actively trying to encourage vulnerable populations to choose MAID?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#132

Post by smitty1e »

labster wrote: post #74
ArtemZ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually kind of able to pick where my taxes are going. By moving to other countries. Surely, Canada is not going to be on the list.

Bye Felicia

Missing the reference, sorry.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#133

Post by bluefirebrand »

x86x87 wrote: post #128
verall wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you're probably middle class. Talk to vets and you'll learn one of the worst parts of the job is euthanizing animals because people cannot afford or don't have the time to provide treatment for them.

I suspected as much. It must be heartbreaking to have to put your pet down because you cannot afford the treatment. Otoh, if you cannot afford the treatment should you get a pet in the 1st place? (Yes, i know that things are not created equal and probably I come at this from a privileged position)

Pets are an amazing part of peoples lives and absolutely should not just be a privilege for those wealthy enough to pay for expensive medicine and frequent vet visits.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#134

Post by janef0421 »

htag wrote: post #4

> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own members that people are being driven to euthanasia by credit card debt, poor housing, and difficulties getting medical care. Did I miss the actual concrete evidence this is being purposefully being used to reduce certain populations?

It doesn't really matter what the intent of the government and medical establishment is; In fact, it may not even be coherent to attribute intent to such an entity. What matters is what the system does, and the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#135

Post by htag »

janef0421 wrote: post #134
htag wrote: post #4

> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own members that people are being driven to euthanasia by credit card debt, poor housing, and difficulties getting medical care. Did I miss the actual concrete evidence this is being purposefully being used to reduce certain populations?

It doesn't really matter what the intent of the government and medical establishment is; In fact, it may not even be coherent to attribute intent to such an entity. What matters is what the system does, and the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised.

> the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised

The enter point of the MAiD system is to result in deaths. I think the intent matters a lot. I don't think it's a cause for alarm if we find some subpopulations that use a medical service more than others. I do think it's alarming if people are scheming to kill poor people.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#136

Post by x86x87 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #133
x86x87 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspected as much. It must be heartbreaking to have to put your pet down because you cannot afford the treatment. Otoh, if you cannot afford the treatment should you get a pet in the 1st place? (Yes, i know that things are not created equal and probably I come at this from a privileged position)

Pets are an amazing part of peoples lives and absolutely should not just be a privilege for those wealthy enough to pay for expensive medicine and frequent vet visits.

i mean... yes and no. should you ensure that you can take care of your pet before you get a pet? would you get a pet if you cannot afford to feed it?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#137

Post by wernercd »

msla wrote: post #130
wernercd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on livin…

Why are you so absurdly adamant about people not being able to end suffering? You dig up some bizarre stories created by people with agendas, and refuse to acknowledge that the right to life includes the right to choose how life ends, and to deny that is to deny the basic rights of humanity. You absolutely refuse to see that the government has no place to mandate suffering. Why do you think the government should step…

The problem isn't people not being able to end suffering... the problem is people being ended before time and people being ended because they are poor and the government is simply cost cutting.

"created by people with agendas" and "MAID" is defended by people with agendas. Everyone has an agenda - even people like you that presumably want to "end suffering".

"why do you think the government should step in and demand people suffer" Because anyone who trusts the government with the right to end peoples lives and ignores OBVIOUS problems with such power (IE: the stories about people with "agendas" - aka those who shouldn't be getting killed) is ignorant of governments abusing powers.

"Why are you so pro-big-government?" I'm not pro big government... I'm anti-government killing people. I don't think they should have the right to cut costs by killing people who shouldn't be killed.

Don't try to spin this as pro-big government... it's actually ANTI big government because I don't trust the government. If you do? You're ignorant of history - past and present.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#138

Post by wernercd »

mft_ wrote: post #102
wernercd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on livin…

I don’t think those are all examples against euthanasia being available - they’re arguments for needing better support to be available for vulnerable people. Very few would argue with your underlying point that euthanasia should only be used in the right circumstances . But anecdotes which may be to the contrary shouldn’t justify removal of the concept altogether - just examination and adjustment. A mature and reason…

I don't disagree conceptually.

I'd argue that it's like the death penalty. The right people should be killed but what happens if you execute an innocent person? It's better to err on the side of not killing so you don't accidentally kill an innocent person.

Likewise? I think the bar for euthanasia should be insanely high. I do think it should exist - there are people who deserve to die with dignity. Cancer or life ending conditions.

I think the problem is "where appropriate"... I seriously doubt that the 10k people in Canada killed this year are all appropriate. There are examples of people being given "the option" for being depressed or simply to poor to afford better options. Those aren't appropriate.

One person killed that shouldn't be is too many.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#139

Post by igorkraw »

joe_the_user wrote: post #127
igorkraw wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? It seems excessively cruel to me to try and force people to live in misery big enough to make the want to kill themselves instead of alleviating the misery . Like, the article seems to frame the argument that MAID can be used to lobby for better welfare as a ridiculous idea, but that's really…

I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? This is a perverse sort of argument. I'm in favor of social services (UBI or otherwise) sufficient to prevent homelessness. There are a lot problematic things situations in this society. But these aren't going away tomorrow - in our world homeless will be with us for a while and you shouldn't…

So what is the benefit of making it painful to end your life? They'll drown themselves out of sight and hopefully wash into the ocean? What is the solution to the suffering that making killing yourself harder brings?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#140

Post by ElFitz »

goatsi wrote: post #45

>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70%…

Or perhaps cancer is better treated in California.

Or perhaps palliative care is better in California.

I’m not Californian, and I seriously doubt what I just wrote. But there most certainly are more factors that need to be considered here.

Post reply on HN