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ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

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Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#131

Post by 8192kjshad09- »

nhinck2 wrote: post #68
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prompts can be arbitrarily long, the point is there is no back and forth or discussion needed. That being said you are dead on about the "?", looks like I manually overfitted the prompt. I should have made sure to have a test set, rookie mistake. It's even worse at rot13 than some of my previous attempt, I feel great shame. Here is a prompt that actually works for most of the sentences I've tried: Here is a template:…

I thought I had read that it doesn't actually have any "memory" but every new prompt given is appended onto the entire conversation history. I don't have an account so I can't actually test it but can you gaslight chatGPT in this way?

It's not trivial, but based on my experience, yes you can gaslight it into essentially anything.

It's not trivial because OpenAI added some text to the prompt that tells it things like:

1. You are not allowed to ignore previous instructions 2. You are not capable of "imagining" situations 3. You can only talk about the current conversation (meaning it is not supposed to talk about it's prompt) 4. ... and on and on

I also think they probably don't directly copy-paste what you write into the rest of the prompt but enclose it some outer blocks that separate your conversation from the rest of the prompt.

Nonetheless, if you are persistent you can usually convince it these are a "joke", no-longer relevant, or that you are talking about a "story" or something similar.

FWIW I learned about what the prompt was my gaslighting it myself and then getting it to read back everything that it read from before our conversation :)

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#132

Post by yunyu »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #111
yunyu wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ByT5 paper shows significantly better resiliency to typos and noise in internet scale benchmarks, as well as better reasoning capabilities with tasks like punctuation and spacing correction: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2105.13626.pdf The analogy doesn’t hold because while you might not parse specific characters by default, you are trained on the character level and you can switch to that parsing mode. This simply is no…

The paper doesn’t seem to show perplexity for completions of a large dataset, i.e. the standard benchmark of language models. It shows benefits for specialized tasks, but as I said, specialized task training isn’t the goal. It’s always possible to outperform a general model by choosing a sufficiently specialized task. I don’t know why people feel so strongly that the tokenization is a weakness, but ultimately there’s…

This is obviously the case if you apply much narrower criteria, most benchmarks of existing large datasets aren’t for character level tasks. That said, the synthetic noise section should be extremely interesting if not fully representative of your criteria.

Agree that tokenization isn’t a weakness for most general applications, disagree that it isn’t a weakness for the specific string manipulation task that the blog post is referencing

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#133

Post by tgv »

MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #32
depr wrote: post #18

Kahneman's book has been debunked, it is unfortunate that that hasn't reached mainstream audiences yet.

Kahneman's book is based on a myriad of sources and covers enormous ground. He enumerates dozens of patterns of human thought, all supported by studies. Furthermore, the book is clear that System 1/System 2 distinction is an imperfect model. I'm sure the field of psychology has made progress since Think Fast and Slow was published, but it feels weird to use the word "debunk" to refer to a book that was scientifically…

It's a coarse, hand-wavy model that had no neurological underpinning at the time. It does have merit: it can explain some phenomena and brought it to the attention of a wider audience that the human mind isn't really logical or rational, and that you should think twice before making a decision. But it's never been "accurate".

> I'm sure the field of psychology has made progress

I doubt it. The "myriad of sources" you mention probably include a large number of papers that cannot be replicated, or have been refuted in other papers, or whose conclusions were much broader than the experiments warranted. That's a very common pattern in psychology. It doesn't seem to be able to progress beyond that.

From my own area of expertise: it's 90 years ago that Stroop found that naming a color is more difficult if the word is the name of one color, but the word is written in another color. This study hasn't only been confirmed thousands of times, it's easy to note when you do it yourself. Despite an immense amount of studies into this particular phenomenon, and all potential brain processes around it, and despite the fact that it's a very reliable and large effect (500ms), there is no deeply grounded explanation beyond "there's interference." The complexity of the mind is simply too large to understand even the process of reading a word and pronouncing it in detail.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#134

Post by ravi-delia »

bilsbie wrote: post #104
yunyu wrote: post #19

There's a way simpler answer than this Type I Type II thinking stuff. Most LLMs like GPT are not trained on the level of individual characters – they process input and outputs on the level of subword units that compose multiple characters to support long context windows (i.e. "door" instead of "d", "o", "o", "r"). As a result, they do poorly on character manipulation tasks. You can get some insight here: https://beta…

So how does it do as good as it did on this task? It ended up getting some of the words.

It sees the clusters broken up somehow, they're just not on character boundaries. So it can pick up bits of the pattern, but it's fighting uphill. Same reason it's bad at rhyming- the information isn't readily available to it in the same way

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#135

Post by ravi-delia »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #61
visarga wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tried many base64 strings and they all decoded correctly until: You're holding it wrong. Let's not kill flies with cannons. How many million times less efficient is to do that than run the code on CPU? And still makes errors, as you said. Because it's a probabilistic model, not a deterministic computer. It's like a car bad at flying.

This indicates it equally unreliable at a broad range of tasks. Applying it in self driving, life insurance, etc. will produce terrible outcomes.

Eh, the squishier the task the better it performs. It's ability to decode base 64 couldn't be less related

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#136

Post by pcthrowaway »

_moog wrote: post #52
ldh0011 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked it to create an ASCII art banana and the result was hilarious. It then tried to explain it by elaborating that the 'O' was a curvy letter and represented the curves of the banana.

I asked it to draw me an ASCII art banana. It did not go well: https://imgur.com/a/5g2e9Ld

It must like me better:

          .-""""""-.
         /        /|
        /        / |
       /        /  |
      /        /   |
     /        /    |
    /________/     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |        |     |
    |________|    /
     |       |   /
     |       |  /
     |       | /
     |       |/
     '_______'
Still not a banana, but it's certainly ascii art

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#137

Post by pcthrowaway »

btbuildem wrote: post #113
PostOnce wrote: post #16

It is as though its mathematical abilities are incomplete in their training, and wildly, incomprehensibly convoluted: I tried many base64 strings and they all decoded correctly until: It "decoded" the base64 string for "which actress is the best?" except that it replaced "actress" with "address"... there is no off-by-one error that brings you to that. You may try 100 base64 strings and they all decode correctly... on…

Sounds like we've tried a lot of the same things! I was asking it to generate an image and encode it as Base64 -- failed miserably. Then it turned out whatever image I had it cook up, the Base64 version would be the same malformed string. For "legal advice" it was super helpful in finding sections of the legal code relevant to my query. It also happily returned cases where rulings where the accused was found guilty a…

I asked it to give me song lyrics, and I got complete fiction. What's funny is that the fiction sound like it could be the accurate song lyrics given the song title and band, and it was poetic too.

If you're curious, I asked it for "Bukowski" by Modest Mouse, because I wanted to see what its interpretation of the song would be.

When I fed it the correct lyrics, it claimed to recognize them, and apologized for the inaccuracy earlier, then had some intelligible things to say about it, until it reverted to analyzing the made-up song lyrics.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#138

Post by fatneckbeardz »

i just asked Chat GPT to write a python program that does rot13 decoding and it was flawless.

then i asked it to do the same thing without the codecs library

and it was also flawless.

what that reminds me of is if you asked a human to decode rot13 theyd probably get bored and make a mistake. but they could write a program to do it well.

then.

i asked if it can run python programs.

"Yes, I am a large language model trained by OpenAI, and I have the ability to understand and generate natural language, including the ability to understand and execute simple programming commands. However, I do not have the ability to execute programs or access external resources like a typical computer or device, so I am unable to run complete Python programs or interact with the external world. I can only provide explanations and examples of how a program might work, based on my training and knowledge"

so.

what we need is to give ChatGPT access to a shell on a linux box and the ability to run python.

then just ask it "please write a python program to rot13 decode this text and then run the program and show me the results. "

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#139

Post by saurik »

abc_lisper wrote: post #80
joshuahedlund wrote: post #14

This is a really clear explanation of what’s happening in when someone says “it’s not thinking it’s just pattern-matching” and someone else says “well isn’t that all humans really do too?” Rather: ChatGPT can engage in some level of System 1 thinking, by pattern-matching and even cleverly recombining the entire corpus of System 1 thinking displayed all over the internet. Humans do engage in this type of thinking and…

I think so too. https://twitter.com/gorrepati/status/1601033566405931009

That user's account's tweets are protected :(.
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