Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic • Hacker News Board

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#131

Post by adamiscool8 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:24 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #52

eastbound wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large difference between old vaccines and the Covid one in terms of trust.

A fact that has essentially nothing to do with the safety or efficacy of the COVID vaccine. There has been a deliberate ideologically-driven campaign to undermine that trust. Ask a COVID anti-vaxxer to explain their position, and it will almost immediately include at least one outright falsehood. Not a "difference of opinion" or "interpretation" or "risk tolerance", but just an outright lie. And correcting that will…

The rate of serious adverse effects is literally a full order of magnitude higher for the COVID-19 vaccines than for the flu shot or the longstanding childhood inoculations like MMR. The difference you see in trust is because of an establishment that appears to have become so biased it undermines itself by not openly acknowledging fact.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#132

Post by yucky » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:25 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #66

DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

When I was growing up, you had to get your vaccines to go to school or join the military or participate in many aspects of society and anti-vaxers were seen as a fringe minority.

Which of those vaccines still resulted in most of the recipients still getting infected like we see with Covid?

You can't compare the MMR type vaccines to Covid, they're not remotely similar in efficacy.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#133

Post by disambiguation » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:27 PM UTC

jgeada wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

i agree, not because there's any special risk involved - rather people with opposite values should probably avoid each other in first place.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#134

Post by yucky » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:27 PM UTC

nwiswell wrote: post #91

TrevorJ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't work for the Federal government. The order(s) were very broad and reached far far down the chain so as to effect as many people as possible.

It applies to anyone paid with federal money. That's constructively the same as being employed by the government. Again, free association cuts both ways... If you don't have to work for the government, why should the government be obligated to employ / pay you? That is the opposite of force.

Federal money is our money. They don't make money, they take ours.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#135

Post by adamiscool8 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:29 PM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #82

curmudgeon22 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Canada, near Vancouver. It's mostly back to normal now, but for a long time: * couldn't visit restaurants * couldn't fly/take a train/take a ferry Still can't: * Visit my grandparents at their retirement home * Visit the USA The general opinion as that you should be vaccinated, but it mostly doesn't come up now. The government is currently passing legislation so they can better mandate vaccination to medical p…

Most homes for the elderly here require flu vaccinations for all staff, and some even require flu vaccines for visitors. Why is that okay? New flu vaccines are developed annually because it’s a seasonal illness, which makes them just as “experimental” or “novel” as many COVID vaccines such as AstraZeneca that aren’t using mRNA technology. Why is suddenly everyone up in arms about something they were fine with before?…

The rate of adverse events seen with the flu shots is a full order of magnitude lower than the COVID-19 vaccines. People are partially up in arms because there is a continued conflation of two very different safety profiles.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#136

Post by nwiswell » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:32 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #134

nwiswell wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It applies to anyone paid with federal money. That's constructively the same as being employed by the government. Again, free association cuts both ways... If you don't have to work for the government, why should the government be obligated to employ / pay you? That is the opposite of force.

Federal money is our money. They don't make money, they take ours.

Right, yeah, so the implication of XO 14043 being that the 80% of people who are voluntarily vaccinated are not down with the government taking their money in order to pay it to people who are voluntarily unvaccinated.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#137

Post by daVe23hu » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:33 PM UTC

TOMDM wrote: post #117

daVe23hu wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu vaccines do not cause miscarriages , myocarditis

You know what also causes myocarditis at a far higher rate than the mRNA vaccine? COVID. I haven't seen anything suggesting miscarriages caused by mRNA vaccines, do you have any sources?

https://rumble.com/v1y4u78-foot-long-blood-clots-from-mrna-s...

https://rumble.com/v1wpgms-mrna-adverse-reaction-data-suppre...

https://rumble.com/v1sm1gq-ed-dowd-sudden-adult-deaths-incre...

Case 1:21-cv-00008-MJT Document 65 Filed 08/22/22 Page 1 of 46 PageID #: 1946 Brook Jackson whistle blower case on testing process This is an interesting case as Brook Jackson worked in the drug trial industry many years and with this RMNA approval process she witnessed so many abuses in process she took on the career ending process of "blowing the whistle"

Please send me the references to your assertion "You know what also causes myocarditis at a far higher rate than the mRNA vaccine? COVID."

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#138

Post by epgui » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:34 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #128

epgui wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do prevent transmission. God, I wish misinformation would not spread so easily. (Edit: I'm a biochemist, merely relaying a consensus position, in my area of expertise, and getting downvoted. Nice.)

Quoted post unavailable.

They do, because it's not 100% effective at preventing transmission. That does not mean it is 0% effective. Anything greater than 0% effectively prevents transmission.

FYI, this is my area of expertise.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#139

Post by epgui » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:38 PM UTC

TOMDM wrote: post #102

epgui wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do prevent transmission. God, I wish misinformation would not spread so easily. (Edit: I'm a biochemist, merely relaying a consensus position, in my area of expertise, and getting downvoted. Nice.)

If we're being specific, they reduce transmission, they don't wholesale prevent it. My frustration is people will look at "decreases mortality by xx%" or "decreases spread by y%" and conclude that it's not worth taking even when the risks are slim to non existent. Hacker News is a place where we talk about billion dollar industries that are built on someone doing something 2% better than the other guy, but all that r…

That is correct.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#140

Post by epgui » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 11:38 PM UTC

nwiswell wrote: post #122

greenyoda wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In January, the director of the CDC said: "...what they can’t do anymore is prevent transmission. So if you're going home to somebody who has not been vaccinated, somebody who can't get vaccinated... I would suggest you wear a mask in a public indoor setting" https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-...

This is an issue of semantics. They "prevent" in the sense that they "reduce the risk", not in the sense that they "preclude entirely". Put another way: they prevent some transmission. They do not prevent all transmission. It's not unusual to be sloppy with the definition here. Typically you would say that birth control prevents pregnancy, even though it is not 100% efficacious.

That is correct.

As for sloppiness... If there used to be 100 cookies in the cookie jar, and now there are 95, then there's a difference between saying "I did not eat cookies" (the implication is that you did not eat any of the missing 5 cookies) and saying "I did not eat all the missing cookies" (the implication being that you ate fewer than 5 cookies). Saying the vaccines don't prevent transmission is the same as saying they prevent 0% of transmission, which is completely false.