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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#131

Post by ambicapter »

glitchc wrote: post #85
ravenstine wrote: post #72

My favorite form of poor communication: --- ME: Is X true? And if it is, does that mean Y would also true? THEM: Yes, Y would be true. skip a beat ME: Ok, so to be clear, X is true? THEM: No, X isn't true. ME IN MY HEAD: :facepalm: --- This happens all the time , and is why I've learned to simply not write multiple or compound questions per message in Slack. They have to be broken up into single questions I ask one a…

I think your questions were answered correctly by someone who was rather patient with you (am assuming the direct leader, but only speculating). You asked if Y would be true given that X is true. It's called leading the question. The other party agreed with your assertion, hence the "would" as in "Y would be true, IF X were true," with the emphasis on the if being mine. Then you used that to assume X is true, which t…

I think you're committing the same mistake he's complaining about. The first question is a question (that needs to be answered, since it was asked). The second question is a follow-up question, that is clearly structured to be some sort of dependency on the first question (hence, more reasons to answer the first question). Just answering the second question is still ignoring parts of OP's communication.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#132

Post by jimt1234 »

willcipriano wrote: post #11

Lots of people are afraid to say "I don't know" in my experience. Although, sometimes people ask me a question where I have to work out in my head what the answer is and it feels weird to sit there in silence for 15 seconds as I do so.

A mentor of mine once told me to never be afraid to say these powerful words: _"I don't get it."_ I've said that in countless meetings and technical discussions, and I've found 2 typical outcomes: The person talking doesn't get it, either; they're just hand-waving. Or, others in the room/discussion also don't get it but were afraid to ask (they often thank me later for speaking up).

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#133

Post by FigurativeVoid »

I will just address people communicating verbally.

The idea that people know what they want, and are able to communicate it without thinking and planning is not realistic.

People need to take a second and think, and even then, it's hard and they probably don't know what they actually want to say.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#134

Post by aerostable_slug »

m_fayer wrote: post #104

I am, charitably, a pretty decent developer. I also have what I think most would agree is a pretty successful career. My career is not built on programming. Rather, it's built on my ability to communicate effectively in writing and in spontaneous speech, and to serve as a translation layer between various parts of an organization. Your frustration is my opportunity. In my experience, few people without the training o…

You took the words out of my mouth. People with accounting or business degrees who complained about having to take Greek Thought or whatever other minimal liberal arts courses often can't communicate their way out of a wet paper bag.

It's not a question of intellect (though there are some with more innate aptitude than others), it's a question of training.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#135

Post by susodapop »

czzr wrote: post #110

Speech is a (relatively) low bandwidth protocol connecting two very densely connected extremely high bandwidth systems. Changing the state of a system through the speech protocol is a slow, time consuming and error prone task. Some people are better at it than others.

Furthermore, a pareto distribution likely applies. 80% of the talent is concentrated in 20% of the population, regardless its size.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#136

Post by BeetleB »

f1shy wrote: post #119
bjornlouser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You imply that the other PhD is being difficult but I think you're being difficult. In my opinion you should start with an open-ended question "How do we determine if there is a malfunction in the ASIC?". Unless this is your subordinate and you are convinced of a plan of action. In that case don't ask, just be direct and tell them what you want to test.

In this case is my subordinate. The idea of doing the measurement was discussed with other people, I have 20+ years doing such debugging. I already had asked him to do the measurement. My question started more to be sure he actually is going to do it, because I have experience with not doing what he is supposed to. Not a bad guy, but sometimes seems to just don’t understand. Btw: at the end the test confirmed the sus…

I agree with the parent. When there is confusion like this, switch to open ended:

"OK, we both agree there appears to be a problem with the transmission. How do you propose we investigate?"

From the dialog it appears you were two steps ahead of the person and what he really needed was time to think it through. Asking the open ended question gives him space to think.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#137

Post by throwaway0asd »

Excluding learning disorders and mental health disorders and the quality/clarity/precision of communication is a reflection of both education and practice.

Most of the software engineers I have worked with never put anything in writing because they lack confidence in their ability to express their thoughts in a written form. When that becomes common in a work culture you tend to have lots of meetings where people over communicate verbally as a compensation while everyone else is silently playing games or watching paint dry.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#138

Post by BeetleB »

what-the-grump wrote: post #6

They are still faking it and haven't made it yet. Takes about 15-30 seconds to figure out if the person you are talking to understands or is being evasive. In which case you need to adjust and put on kiddy gloves, slow down, and coax information out.

> Takes about 15-30 seconds to figure out if the person you are talking to understands or is being evasive.

Ah, now I see why certain communications go awry. One party is jumping to conclusions in under a minute.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#139

Post by tlogan »

In general, people (especially young adults) do not want to look stupid. So if they do not know the answer they start talking / writing about the shit they know.

But senior engineers and wiser people will answer with: I do now know. Or simple “yes” or “no”. Or answer with clear question or two if the initial question is not clear.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#140

Post by dcminter »

Izkata wrote: post #115
throoooooowa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You yourself are missing words in your communication like the word "have" in the quote above. Also, I don't know enough linguistic rules to correct you, but colloquially at least your title is better understood if you write it as "Why do some people not communicate clearly?" Thanks, corrected the mistakes. However, I wasn't referring to missing words (which can be inferred) or bad grammar. Actually I wasn't referri…

> I'm not an English native speaker myself So your posts don't really give this away to me, except for the dropped "have"/"has" that GP pointed out (I've seen this a lot from people who learned English as a second language, though I'm not confident enough to guess what your first language is). But it does give me two additional ideas that from a quick scroll downwards I don't think others have suggested: Language or…

Early in my career I had an issue with some Indian colleagues who were using a little head wiggle that means "yes" or "go on" in that context, but to me at the time seemed more like a shrug or a "maybe". An observing colleague later explained to me - he said he enjoyed seeing me nod more and more vigorously and explaining my point in more and more detail as I unconsciously tried to elicit the expected "missing" nod of agreement/understanding from them...

We live and learn.

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