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What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

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Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#131

Post by matwood »

progman32 wrote: post #125
ransom1538 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yep, they will never forget humiliation of depending on someone else's charity" Wow. What a horrible way to view the world.

I have friends like this. They fought super hard and sacrificed a lot to get themselves and their families where they are. Super kind and generous people. Getting unsolicited gifts like this feels like a big slap in the face of what they've accomplished. I'm not saying they're right to feel this way. But it's something that needs to be considered.

It's not really unsolicited if the friend just told you they can't pay their rent. If they were the stoic you write about, they wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#132

Post by e2e4 »

0898 wrote: post #57
hunterb123 wrote: post #50

Quoted post unavailable.

I know this is getting downvoted, but I think there's a few croutons of truth in this snarky soup.

I wasn't aware of the "IT crowd" comedy tv show. It definitely lifted my spirit up, perhaps in a similar way that layoff episode of "office space" would. It is black humor, but humor nonetheless, and some people do appreciate such form. Censoring comedy doesn't seem right.

This is the episode to which the parent post refers: https://youtu.be/TKOrr4XRbg8

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#133

Post by BurningFrog »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #41
BurningFrog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I'll be the jerk who tells you the Kubler-Ross Model doesn't have much empirical evidence: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-history/its-time-le... That said, it at least provides a vocabulary for talking about loss.

"empirical evidence" would likely require a breach of research ethics, but I suppose you could randomly borrow your neighbors cats to observe owner behaviors. Just kidding, as being a "jerk" with facts is not a character flaw from my perspective. lol =)

This is a good example of Acceptance!

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#134

Post by matwood »

themihai wrote: post #102
ransom1538 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend: "I can't pay my rent." Me: "Whats your venmo". 4 minutes later.... My friend: "wtf I can't pay this back" Me: "Good i don't do loans" Put in the cash or effort. When you help someone down, they never forget.

>> When you help someone down, they never forget. That's just wishful thinking. Most of the times they "forget" or somehow think you have had enough money so that wasn't a big effort. That's why it's not really worth it(imho) to help somehow unless your effort is minimal.

Doesn't matter if they forget. Life's too short not to help others if you have the means to help.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#135

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

ransom1538 wrote: post #88
scionthefly wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a recent devastating family tragedy, a friend reached out and said "we are paying a lawn service to mow for you." It was unexpected, related to something I had posted about trying to fix our riding lawnmower, and honestly took a huge chore off of our plate at a time when we needed to focus on family. I've appreciated so many things people have done for us, from just a message, card, shoulder to cry on, or visit…

My friend: "I can't pay my rent." Me: "Whats your venmo". 4 minutes later.... My friend: "wtf I can't pay this back" Me: "Good i don't do loans" Put in the cash or effort. When you help someone down, they never forget.

> When you help someone down, they never forget.

You assume that they will never forget and will be grateful to you for your help, but the opposite might happen: people will hate you instead of feeling grateful. Some people will resent being in a situation when they needed help. They'll feel inferior and will hate you for that.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#136

Post by matwood »

sneak wrote: post #24

Why is being laid off being compared to the grief related to the death of a parent? Why would there be any grief from a layoff? It’s just a job. Anyone in mourning because they have to job hunt probably has some bigger issues that aren’t going to be helped in any way by what friends do or do not say.

> Why would there be any grief from a layoff? It’s just a job.

For many on HN you might be right, but for people living paycheck to paycheck it causes an enormous amount of stress. My dad was a factory worker and got laid off when I was young. It was hard. I was old enough to understand the real stress my parents were under while they tried to pay the bills each month (it's fun having your water turned off which can take 48h to turn back on after you pay smh). Luckily my grandparents helped financially while my dad worked 3 jobs to make ends meet. I was working and gave them the little money I had.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#137

Post by miscaccount »

scruple wrote: post #120
mkl95 wrote: post #113

A couple of (former) teammates were laid off recently. In both cases I was honest and told them I didn't agree with leadership's decision, and I asked them if they had some project lined up. Both of them said they were taking some time off and not thinking about work for a while. It aligns with my personal experience when I was laid off.

A very good friend was hit by a recent BigTechCo layoff. He has the financial security to take some months off but his immigration status has rendered him scrambling. I wish there were serious efforts to reform that entire system. I'm putting feelers out on his behalf but there's really not much else I can do to help him and it's frustrating.

As someone who is also impacted by recent layoff and on H1B i feel like a headless chicken trying to figure out what to do.

Everyone expects to do several round of interview and also if you are not in leetcode mode its hard.

One of my best prospect company, announced a lay off too :(

Having said that load of people have helped me in referring to their company and doing everything to help.

Be empathic to the people who are laid off and also this country needs immigration reform.

Having no clear target on when i will get a green card (maybe 10, 20 or even 100) its making me reconsider my decision to stay here a lot.

i am just ramblings on immigration and i know only Indians are suffering the most compared to others.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#138

Post by tacheiordache »

scruple wrote: post #124
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #47

Engineers instinctively want to solve problems. You can't solve this problem. They're going to feel awful for a while. "Hey, you'll find another job!" or "Hey, in 6 months you'll be over it!" or mentioning Kubler-Ross are the wrong "solutions." And definitely anything about you is the wrong solution. "I'm really sorry" sounds like boilerplate, but that's a good opening. And also a good closing.

It really is frustrating. I commented elsewhere on this post that a very good friend of mine was just laid off and his immigration status is now a question that needs an answer in the coming month(s). His entire family is on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I'm 3 states removed, so I can't physically help him with anything, either. My own employer is not hiring right now. The best that I can do is reach out to my…

Could a friend hire him for their company for a fictitious salary or something like that to keep their immigration clock going?

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#139

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

droopybuns wrote: post #114
paxys wrote: post #61

I wish we weren't culturally in a place where a layoff is treated like the death of a family member. We need to stop tying our identities (and basic healthcare) to our job. Getting fired from Amazon should really be a reason for celebration.

Loss of revenue puts people at risk of famine and indentured servitude. This isn't a cultural thing. Human evolution is ugly. Evolution's filter function is death. If you can't feed yourself, nature will use you for food. You are coming from a place of extreme privilege lamenting that people get stressed about losing a job. It's not a minor inconvenience if you're working on something you think is important. Button p…

He is not coming from a place of extreme privilege. He is coming to it. In good times people here on HN publicly argue about ways of squeezing every possible dollar from their employers, talking about compensation, options, bonuses and such, easily changing jobs for better money, always feeling very special and productive.

This is a reality check: if you are productive and make the company $2M per year while costing only $350k per year, your job security is fine. If you do some work that company can live without, you're probably not as productive as you thought you were. Maybe it is time to adjust your self-esteem and expectations to the market reality.

Re: What not to say to someone who has just been laid off

#140

Post by miscaccount »

tacheiordache wrote: post #138
scruple wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is frustrating. I commented elsewhere on this post that a very good friend of mine was just laid off and his immigration status is now a question that needs an answer in the coming month(s). His entire family is on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I'm 3 states removed, so I can't physically help him with anything, either. My own employer is not hiring right now. The best that I can do is reach out to my…

Could a friend hire him for their company for a fictitious salary or something like that to keep their immigration clock going?

that would be immigration fraud and can be a serious offence.

the paper work for getting a H1b or any immigration visa is like 100+ pages at minimum.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/two-santa-clara-county-...

just one of the many example.

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