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But, aren't you folks web2?

nadh.in

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Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#131

Post by World177 »

pavlov wrote: post #86
World177 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To my knowledge, the Chrome Web Store user count represents the number of users with the extension installed who have opened Chrome in the past 7 days. So the 10M+ number for MetaMask includes everyone who installed the extension but isn't actually using it. It's active by default on all websites. As long as it is active, a user can resolve linked ENS domains.

Right — I actually forgot we're talking about ENS, not wallet users. The 60M+ user base for ENS-enabled browsers is a genuinely impressive number. But at the same time it's about 1.1% of the world's total internet users. In terms of reach, it's basically like making your product a desktop Linux app — it might be the right choice for some niche, but not for any mass market. For the actual ENS lookup, I presume Brave a…

> The 60M+ user base for ENS-enabled browsers is a genuinely impressive number. But at the same time it's about 1.1% of the world's total internet users. In terms of reach, it's basically like making your product a desktop Linux app — it might be the right choice for some niche, but not for any mass market.

It took time to for ENS to build this userbase and it had to start with nothing. I don't know what the final result will be with this, but I think this is a good starting point.

> For the actual ENS lookup, I presume Brave and Metamask actually call a service like Infura? It feels like that's a step back for decentralization compared to plain old DNS.

Yes. It seems like many people who are creating in this space do not actually care about decentralization.

The internet has mostly existed in peace with the governments in most democratic countries. Though, at the same time, I think even with Tor, the average person in China probably struggles to get around the firewall.

It's possible to set the RPC node for MetaMask and Brave browser. There are also extensions on GitHub that resolve from a local node. Though, this solution is probably too unrealistic for the average user. I think in the past I've seen discussions about querying nodes directly, but, I'm doubtful there's going to be more solutions soon.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#132

Post by Tesl »

cameronh90 wrote: post #71
ekidd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, web3 is becoming strongly associated with high-profile scams, many of them likely criminal. It's also associated with people who won't stop talking about how the blockchain will make your teeth whiter, or something equally unlikely. Blockchains are just decentralized Merkle trees. Merkle trees are a cool trick (look at git!). But the cost of decentralizing them, Bitcoin-style, has been massive carbon e…

I think it's worth separating the technology of cryptocurrencies from the culture surrounding it. Blockchain technology was innovative and is interesting, but still early stage. I doubt that many of the early adopters of Bitcoin expected it to blow up in the way that it did, rather than just being a cyberpunk experiment that would potentially lead to some world-changing technology in the future. I would consider myse…

It's fifteen years since bitcoin came out. Why are you still pretending that it's early? It's absolutely not early anymore.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#133

Post by acdha »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #98

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

I think that's a valid concern, but it's not clear that the web3 companies are even trying to solve it rather than replace other companies. We've seen so many times over where the “decentralized” system relies on a handful of companies to function and they always seem to be pushing their own site rather than you hosting yourself.

Maybe a new college grad doesn't remember the 2010s but almost all of these companies have executives, board members, and VCs who were there at the time, and I think it's telling that you very rarely hear anyone discuss what lead to so much centralization and the systems they propose are clearly going to suffer from the same problems if anyone starts using them seriously. This isn't a novel observation or especially hard to find good discussions about so it's hard to avoid the conclusion that they're not looking for it because there's no profit in it.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#134

Post by D13Fd »

yao420 wrote: post #127
hocuspocus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. I agree we'll see bootcamp grads and other people from non-traditional backgrounds get burned but it also gives them opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise, so I'm not sure it's a net negative overall. The much bigger issue lies within p…

I studied CS and worked at 2 FAANGS before joining Coinbase in 2020 then a blockchain layer 1 a couple of months ago. Coinbase made me multiple 7 figures on IPO day and even with the crypto crash my current job has a cash salary of $350k and ~$200k in tokens. Yes the tech is not usually innovative or groundbreaking but nothing I worked on in my web2 career or college was cutting edge either. When looking for a new jo…

In other words, “yes I’m helping grifters scam people, but it sure pays well.”

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#135

Post by zabzonk »

yao420 wrote: post #127
hocuspocus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. I agree we'll see bootcamp grads and other people from non-traditional backgrounds get burned but it also gives them opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise, so I'm not sure it's a net negative overall. The much bigger issue lies within p…

I studied CS and worked at 2 FAANGS before joining Coinbase in 2020 then a blockchain layer 1 a couple of months ago. Coinbase made me multiple 7 figures on IPO day and even with the crypto crash my current job has a cash salary of $350k and ~$200k in tokens. Yes the tech is not usually innovative or groundbreaking but nothing I worked on in my web2 career or college was cutting edge either. When looking for a new jo…

anyone can say all these things

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#136

Post by k__ »

lpcvoid wrote: post #108
TimJRobinson wrote: post #98

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

But escaping the walled garden shouldn't be a synonym for cryptocurrency scams.

As far as I know, you don't need cryptocurrency to participate.

Lens Protocol, a web3 social media platform, just requires you to have a wallet.

Huddle01, a web3 Zoom alternative, even works without a wallet.

Radicle, a web3 GitHub alternative, works without a wallet.

IPFS, works without a wallet.

And gasless transactions are a huge topic these days. Improving UX and onboarding to web3 by lowering the barrier.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#137

Post by jlokier »

bawolff wrote: post #97
greybeardednyc wrote: post #88

I definitely get the whole “web3” is useless argument for a lot of the cases it’s been proposed but like any new technology I think it may find valid use cases somewhere down the line. One of the few uses for which I am interested is “web3” identity - being able to keep ownership of my identity/credentials. Using, for example, a wallet to sign a message proving I own an address, I can build apps that don’t require me…

I dont think web3 has really made any improvements in this area, so you got to ask what's different now. Using public keys to log into things has been forever. It caught on with ssh (1995), it failed with client-certificates aka mTLS (1996). Zero knowledge proofs also havent really caught on. And its not a new idea. The Fiat–Shamir heuristic is from 1986. Anyways, i dont really think web3 has added anything. Most of…

> Zero knowledge proofs also havent really caught on. And its not a new idea. The Fiat–Shamir heuristic is from 1986.

There's been a lot of advances in recent years in ZKPs, accompanied by a lot more interest. Fiat-Shamir is still used to turn interactive proofs into non-interactive, but the state of the art is far beyond just doing that. zk-SNARKs are less than 10 years old, zk-VMs are becoming more common, and the ZPrize competition is yielding some big steps forward in implementation performance. Probably blockchain applications are a major reason for recent increased interest and commercial R&D, even though that's not where the academics see the main applications.

If you're interested, the zkproof.org conference is currently still going, and the sessions can be watched live:

https://zkproof.org/events/workshop5/

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#138

Post by birracerveza »

m0llusk wrote: post #128
birracerveza wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell is this comment? And top comment on HN, what? If the technology is useful it will be used. If it's not it will die on its own. You can NOT police technical skill. What kind of mentality is this...?

What technology? What use? The piece starts with a relatively straightforward value play being cast as not web3 enough. What even does that mean? And we are not supposed to talk about it, just let it crash around us like a wave?

I am directly addressing

>But a cultural take-over of the technical skill space by a crypto religion is far more series and needs addressing ASAP.

The technology is blockchain, and the skills are writing/reading smart contracts, developing websites making use of Wallets, and everything else that anti-crypto folks keep screaming "IT'S USELESS, USE POSTGRES INSTEAD". If that is true, then the ecosystem will die on its own.

The fact that Web3 is being banged on ad-nauseam as a marketing buzzword, muddying the waters to the point that no one is sure what the hell Web3 even is, does not undermine the technological foundation, which is blockchain. Again, if blockchain IS useless then it will die off, but ... Bitcoin is still going strong a decade in, despite all the bullshit that surrounds it, and is likely impossible to kill off completely. That alone has merit, IMO. Of course, you are free to disagree.

You can talk about it, but actively advocating that "cultural take-over of the technical skill space" needs "addressing" is complete and utter insanity. Blind hatred. You people have become as religious as crypto folks, except in the opposite direction. I've seen people advocating about blacklisting people who worked in crypto/web3 as well.

You are completely losing it. I am honestly worried.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#139

Post by acdha »

web3isgoing wrote: post #89
Zanfa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as with anything web3/crypto, this example falls apart completely when you need to consider the reality of domain squatting, trademark issues, domain name theft etc. Cases where you need somebody (e.g. a court) to overrule code-is-law and thus invalidating the entire premise of putting it on the blockchain in the first place.

Why does a decentralized protocol need to be amenable to these disputes? Saying “we will have a jury of appointed authorities to manage disputes” defeats the point, and is what ENS tries to avoid. If apple.eth is held by a squatter, should courts be able to override the protocol to send it to trademark holder Apple? In the end this can get resolved by regular dispute mechanisms but without compromising decentralizati…

> If apple.eth is held by a squatter, should courts be able to override the protocol to send it to trademark holder Apple? In the end this can get resolved by regular dispute mechanisms but without compromising decentralization and integrity of the protocol.

How exactly do you think this works? With DNS, there's a trusted third party who can help recover from errors — if you lose access, you might have to prove your identity but it's not a hard process. If someone squats your domain or steals it when they compromise your computer, the registrar can sort it out or will respond to a court order.

With ENS, the answer is you're screwed if you lose the key or whoever has it currently isn't responsive. Maybe you can track them down and get a legal action strong enough that they honor it but that's a lot more work and has a lot more failure modes which look like the apple.eth service having to move to apple computers.eth because the system is designed to fail hard. Very few people are going to want to build on something like that because it means that even a trillion-dollar corporation is one phish away from a massive disaster.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#140

Post by capitol_ »

searchableguy wrote: post #63
colesantiago wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deal with domain squatting or trademark violation? The current system does this well because of identity and web3 doesn't have any answer to this. Also I can host my own DNS server with my own domain name all decentralised without crypto scamming.

> How do you deal with domain squatting or trademark violation? In practice, it rarely works. Only big corporations have money to actually sue and win these cases. They usually prefer to pay however. Same with regards to other reasons people give for lack of adoption of crypto alternative. For example, lack of reversal and dispute handling is cited as the major reason why crypto currency isn't used for payments. That…

I work at one of those "big corporations" and we buy our scam domain takedowns from a firm that specialises in that. It costs us €200 per domain.
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