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KDE beats macOS

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Re: KDE beats macOS

#131

Post by BirAdam »

throwntoday wrote: post #9

> Linux is great if you don't value your time Continues to be one of my favorite quotes. Yes I can spend endless hours getting arch installed with only the packages I want/need making sure it's totally optimized and then what, every single other part of my workflow now has to work around the limitations of linux. One day perhaps, but for now, macOS will do.

Personally, my issue with KDE is bugs. It seems I always have little things that are broken, freezing, crashing, or dying of neglect. My issue with most Linux distributions in general is a severe lack of polish. With macOS, I have experienced a handful of show stopping bugs since around '02. With Linux this is somewhat constant. I can usually iron them out within a day or two, but that is time and effort spent on something that isn't exactly "fun" to do.

As already mentioned in the comments, I will take any OS other than Windows 10/11, but my preferences are macOS and Intel's Clear Linux. If Clear would work on non-Intel hardware in a full featured way (that is, with support for AMD's virtualization) or on M1 at all, I would likely use both every day. As it is, I just use macOS. It more or less works.

Additionally, I love that people will hate on macOS for lacking features and therefore requiring helper programs but will at the same praise GNOME Shell which requires even more.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#132

Post by lynndotpy »

uniqueuid wrote: post #27
doix wrote: post #6

Intuitiveness is just what you are used to at this point. If you've been in the Apple ecosystem your whole life, then their UX seems intuitive to you. If you haven't, then it makes absolutely no sense. I first touched an apple device in my 20's, there was nothing intuitive about it. I couldn't do anything and was extremely frustrated. I'm sure the same applies to apple folks trying gnome/KDE/windows. People are getti…

I don't really agree. The really interesting part of intuitiveness is how it scales once you became familiar with the basic set of UX primitives. At least from my experience with ~15 years of mac, ~15 years of on-and-off linux and windows, macOS has remained more consistent, because the primitives are much more universal. Take, for example copying. You can alt-drag a surprising number of things across many different…

> At least from my experience with ~15 years of mac, ~15 years of on-and-off linux and windows, macOS has remained more consistent, because the primitives are much more universal.

I'm having a hard time understanding this, even with your examples. It might be possible that I simply haven't figured out the primitives, or an underlying logic to the OS?

In my experience, MacOS is the worst offender (excluding Windows) of inconsistencies. MacOS is filled with UI elements that, as far as I can tell, only appear once. (For example, the green 'status light' when activating SSH, compared to the slider buttons used everywhere else in the OS.)

My experience is roughly ~5 years MacOS (mostly as a child), ~10 years Windows, ~10 years Linux.

In all, it feels like Apple demands a "larger" language one needs to learn, compared to various Linux distros.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#133

Post by tyfon »

sidlls wrote: post #108
tyfon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually switched to an iphone around 2.5 years ago since teams wouldn't run properly on my old android and the offerings from my company instead of iphone (huawei and samsung) didn't really appeal to me. Now 2.5 years later I switched back due to not being able to make friends with the apple UI despite trying for that long. It feels so constrained and inconsistent to me. The pixel phone I got now is a dream in com…

For context: I'd been a "linux person" since undergrad (mid-90s). I picked up a really early Android model after my BlackBerry expired. I have almost the exact opposite experience as you describe: I switched from Android to iPhone a couple of years ago for two reasons: 1) my Google phones (I had a pixel at the time: previously had written it was a Nexus, but it was not) kept bricking; 2) I got an old model iPhone (it…

Apple fits a lot of people, just not me :)

I think for me the major issue is that I don't like any of the default options in the iphone and the 3rd party keyboards kept bugging out, even swiftkey and gboard would act really weird. Also the undocumented gestures drove me nuts.

And not being able to just have a normal browser with proper ad block and simple things like that.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#134

Post by sofixa »

lucideer wrote: post #52
doix wrote: post #6

Intuitiveness is just what you are used to at this point. If you've been in the Apple ecosystem your whole life, then their UX seems intuitive to you. If you haven't, then it makes absolutely no sense. I first touched an apple device in my 20's, there was nothing intuitive about it. I couldn't do anything and was extremely frustrated. I'm sure the same applies to apple folks trying gnome/KDE/windows. People are getti…

Another hard disagree here. My daily driver personal laptop is a macbook, it's the best machine I've ever owned & my next laptop will most likely be a macbook. My work machine is also a macbook. But they are not intuitive nor highly "usable". After many years going through various osx/macOS transitions, it's an OS with objectively bad ux in many ways. That's not to say it's bad software. Apart from the hardware of my…

> Peripherals work. Suspend/sleep/hibernate work

Counterpoint: no it doesn't. My work MBP cannot sleep (even if i click on Apple -> Sleep), and my Sony headset always connects to it even if it's in my backpack supposedly sleeping.

> Builtin apps are sensibly functional & comprehensive

Yes, with builtin features such as saving in a different, proprietary format. Open a .doc(x) in Pages, Save it and you get a .pages document instead of the original being updated.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#135

Post by king_magic »

goosedragons wrote: post #12
rnd0 wrote: post #4

Beats macOS ...at what? Serious, not facetious, question. The only answer I can think of is "running on non-Apple hardware"

Being usable out of the box? With KDE I don't need to go find a 3rd party app for decent window snapping, I don't need a 3rd party app to put files on my Android phone over USB, I don't need a 3rd party app to have the trackpad and scroll wheel mouse directions be "natural" and "unnatural" at the same time, I don't need a 3rd party app to be able to use the volume buttons to change the volume level of a sound device…

Mighty strange definition of "unusable" you've got there. These are nothingburger complaints for 90% of typical Mac users. Sure, they might be annoying for you, but most users will just shrug at that list and think, yeah, but I can easily watch Apple TV on my Mac while I'm working.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#136

Post by sofixa »

lampe3 wrote: post #20

To be honest I stopped caring what OS I'm running as long as it is not windows. I have a terminal open 99% of the time and I almost never open finder or Gnome Files. pacman or brew? really I don't care. Both install what I want with one command. VS Code is basically the same on every system. Gnome/KDE/MacOS all of them have there pros and cons. Right now what wins for me is the apple silicon. I can develop stuff with…

> pacman or brew? really I don't care. Both install what I want with one command.

As long as you don't care about the fact that brew is slow as hell, or can't actually handle versions and dependencies properly (installed `gpg` the other day, it updated Python and SQLite and 50 other packages to the latest version, regardless of major or minor), yeah, it's a package manager. Kind of. It still boggles my mind Apple haven't replaced it with a better, official version.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#137

Post by thomassmith65 »

stratosmacker wrote: post #127
thomassmith65 wrote: post #120

I hate the Mac*, but even so, nothing on that list of complaints is valid. Here's an example of what I consider a valid complaint: the placement of a Mac's app menubar at the top of the screen, instead of the top of an application window, is wrong. Two pieces of evidence: (1) it leads to confusion with multiple monitors and (2) new Mac users invariably have trouble remembering to look for app-specific choices at the…

The former is true, KDE ships with a clipboard manager with history, macos just has copy/paste. You need something like Maccy to manage history.

If that's what the author meant by 'native'... okay. It rubbed me the wrong way since a big thing about the Mac going back to the mid 1980s was its native clipboard support.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#138

Post by parasubvert »

kennend3 wrote: post #129
oleg_antonyan wrote: post #99

I had to stop the job interview when suddenly they said that I must use Mac. They ship MacBook to you and you have no choice of using Linux or anything else. Corporate policy. It's literally unusable for me after 15+ years on Linux with KDE (mostly). Tried Mac for 4 months at one of the previous jobs but escaped to a comfort zone. Sometimes habits are too strong, and alternative is not appealing enough.

I find some of these "use a mac at work" companies do it because boring companies are trying to be "hip and cool". One place i know uses Java exclusively, but the devs all have macbooks because they are cool? How/why does a macbook improve java app development vs the standard issue Lenovo's? It is like these old and boring companies think that by using macs they are suddenly "trendy and hip" and the millennials will…

It’s all down to taste. I loathe Lenovos and would never want to be forced to use one. I’d tolerate an ASUS ROG laptop or even a Dell XPS. But Mac would easily be the best quality. It has nothing to do with being hip or cool, it’s a taste preference. If anything, Linux is the hipster preference.

Many smaller companies also prefer managing Macs rather than Windows. Though I’ve rarely seen a technical company reject Linux outright.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#139

Post by xiaq »

KDE is the last bastion of GUI customizability.

Everyone else is absolutely horrified by the idea of maintaining a UI option used by less than 20% of the user base. For things that are used by more than 20% of users, they actively make it worse so that people stop using it and they can justify removing them.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#140

Post by selfhoster11 »

doix wrote: post #6

Intuitiveness is just what you are used to at this point. If you've been in the Apple ecosystem your whole life, then their UX seems intuitive to you. If you haven't, then it makes absolutely no sense. I first touched an apple device in my 20's, there was nothing intuitive about it. I couldn't do anything and was extremely frustrated. I'm sure the same applies to apple folks trying gnome/KDE/windows. People are getti…

> Intuitiveness is just what you are used to at this point.

No, it is not. The word "intuitive" is defined by Merriam-Webster as "readily learned or understood" and "knowable by intuition". If the UI is not one of these things, then it is not "intuitive" in the general sense of the word.

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